DDMWorks Stage 2
- Thread starter jeggers65
- Start date
sx sonic
New member
I think all you'll get is estimation, not too many sonics have been dyno'ed and the mods on them have varied a decent amount. Also the few dynos that have been posted tend to be scattered around and/or deleted.
here's a link to the trifecta thread: http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/bad-news-racing/1063-official-trifecta-sonic-tune-thread.html
for a stock auto trans 1.4t and tune they're claiming +36 WHP and + 52 ft lbs of tq. If I recall correctly members are seeing 150-160hp at the wheels and 170-180tq on the dyno with the tune.
With intake, full exhuast, tune, and ported intake manifold the numbers are going up to 170-180 hp and 200 tq at the wheels. I'm going off memory so I could be off, I did a brief search but I'm positive all the hard numbers are buried in various threads.
here's a link to the trifecta thread: http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/bad-news-racing/1063-official-trifecta-sonic-tune-thread.html
for a stock auto trans 1.4t and tune they're claiming +36 WHP and + 52 ft lbs of tq. If I recall correctly members are seeing 150-160hp at the wheels and 170-180tq on the dyno with the tune.
With intake, full exhuast, tune, and ported intake manifold the numbers are going up to 170-180 hp and 200 tq at the wheels. I'm going off memory so I could be off, I did a brief search but I'm positive all the hard numbers are buried in various threads.
Kuntryboy865
New member
Not been dyno'd but BRN looked at my ECM and said its getting 170hp and 196 tq I don't know if that would be close to dyno numbers or not .
sx sonic
New member
I've heard the PIDs are very accurate. Only they're flywheel horsepower as RDSS mentioned.
Fortunately flywheel numbers can be fairly accurately converted to wheel hp/tq.
If I recall correctly autos typically have a 20% loss to the wheels and manuals 15%. So multiplying CountryBoys PID numbers by .80 should give a decent estimation of power at the wheels.
Fortunately flywheel numbers can be fairly accurately converted to wheel hp/tq.
If I recall correctly autos typically have a 20% loss to the wheels and manuals 15%. So multiplying CountryBoys PID numbers by .80 should give a decent estimation of power at the wheels.
SONIC1.4
New member
I wouldnt spend $1250 on the stage 2 kit imo. I think you could get a lot more out of $1250. I was going to buy the stage 2 kit as well but I decided not to. Instead I went with the premium trifecta tune first and blow off valve, then I went to the E85 conversion kit. And I haven't even hit the $1000 mark yet. But I have more power than you'd have purcahsing the stage 2 kit. I guess it just depends on personal goals and the order of your priorities. Personally, I wouldn't buy it.
Macehammer
New member
I thought this was actually disputed/debated/refuted somewhere else... but... too many posts to search.
Macehammer
New member
Thank you.
I'm not trying to complicate the discussion, just provide an opportunity for people to recognize this is "calculus at best."
Also to provide two identically equipped sonic owners with real specs, and dyno sheets (MT vs. AT) to post here.
The problem is, I wouldn't know who those 2 people would be.
I know there are a lot of statements on this site about "computer-calculated" vs. "real results."
<insertRantHere id="MacehammerRant" class="speculative" type="long-winded" />
'Nuff said.
sx sonic
New member
No disputing that. But It's better than nothing
rdss
Junior Member
Sx, I agree. To much goes into how much power actually makes it to the ground and I have heard those percentages since I was a kid.
Macehammer, you could put two 1.4t manual cars that ran off the right behind each other and their efficiencies wouldn't be the same on the same dyno and day. It would be nice to have an estaminet between a few identical cars on the same dyno to get a solid percentage lost though and it would be better than throwing a percentage at our particular car that's probably been around for longer than I have been around.
Macehammer, you could put two 1.4t manual cars that ran off the right behind each other and their efficiencies wouldn't be the same on the same dyno and day. It would be nice to have an estaminet between a few identical cars on the same dyno to get a solid percentage lost though and it would be better than throwing a percentage at our particular car that's probably been around for longer than I have been around.
Macehammer
New member
Just the engine?
Listen, I think while some people might have more faith in "the numbers" than I do, most people are also saying, "..from what I've heard." And I'm not giving them sh*t for saying or believing the numbers, but as most people who have sat through one of my tirades before will testify, I would actually like to see a few real life human beings with real life Sonics do a good semi-scientific comparison. Yeah, there will always be deviations, but they shouldn't be major, ESPECIALLY, if the comparisons were done on stock/no mods cars.
Then we could have something to work from, that would be semi-real, and I wouldn't have to put all of my faith in GM. They do a decent job most of the time, I like most of their lineup, compared to competitors, but they CAN be a bit inconsistent, and I won't trust them to take a dollar from one hand and put a dollar in the other with my eyes closed, so...
Now that you have all got the rant I tried to avoid...
And when you are talking AT vs. MT, what good does just engine "numbers" do?
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Yes its just the engine with all accessory's on a dyno.I am sure GM does it with all there engines to work out the programing.Most all of the ECMs now are TQ based.The driver input is requested TQ out put.I can only tell you what my auto trans car has. 178HP/201TQ and a Trifecta sonic manual was putting out 179HP/207TQ Fairly High numbers for 93 octane tunning
Macehammer
New member
But sx sonic's 5-10% loss is between where the tranny mounts to the engine, and the shafts. The engines in MT and AT vehicles, per spec, are (more or less <- more calculus) identical.
Computer generated numbers from just an engine aren't gonna say squat...in a measurable, final-difference, sum totality type of way...
It's certainly not gonna figure in any tranny suspension, wheel, weight loss, or driver tutelage that would come along with any kit, any stage 1-2-3-75...
That was my poor attempt to get this back heading in the direction it was headed in. Peace.
Computer generated numbers from just an engine aren't gonna say squat...in a measurable, final-difference, sum totality type of way...
It's certainly not gonna figure in any tranny suspension, wheel, weight loss, or driver tutelage that would come along with any kit, any stage 1-2-3-75...
That was my poor attempt to get this back heading in the direction it was headed in. Peace.
Macehammer
New member
I'm saying take estimates with a grain of salt, I wouldn't be trying to achieve a set of numbers necessarily. Based off of some of the qtr. mile times people have posted, there is enough evidence to show mods do not necessarily equal success.
I would definitely agree with sx sonic's approach over the stage 2 kit for anyone with an Automatic trans.
The injectors and e85 are dollar per dollar cheaper than anything else I have seen ppl doing, but you won't unlock E85s full potential (red pill) without further tranny mods on a Manual tranny (Trifecta doesn't want you blowing your tranny). The Auto tranny can handle the red pill without mods, and I would trust Trifectas reporting of this since they have an Auto to test against and they write the tune files.
There is a thread about all of this here...
http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7002"
I would definitely agree with sx sonic's approach over the stage 2 kit for anyone with an Automatic trans.
The injectors and e85 are dollar per dollar cheaper than anything else I have seen ppl doing, but you won't unlock E85s full potential (red pill) without further tranny mods on a Manual tranny (Trifecta doesn't want you blowing your tranny). The Auto tranny can handle the red pill without mods, and I would trust Trifectas reporting of this since they have an Auto to test against and they write the tune files.
There is a thread about all of this here...
http://www.sonicownersforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7002"
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