Hey Guys, My buddy has a 2016 Sonic LT with the 1.8 G code engine and he destroyed it somehow with a timing belt change. He didn't have the cam timing marks lined up and it wouldn't start. I looked at it and told him the timing marks were out of sync. He lined it all up, put it back together and drove it for about a week. He said it was running like crap, so had the codes scanned at Autozone. They sold him a new intake cam position sensor and a new exhaust cam position sensor. Car tried to start and started backfiring. I asked if the sensors were in the correct place and he wasn't sure. He swapped them and cranked the car and it popped and backfired like crazy. He said he heard a weird noise, but it kept spinning over, so he put the old sensors back in and it still popped and backfired. I told him the timing was out and I'll bet where he stripped the tensioner bolt that it came loose. He found about half of a small piston UNDER THE CAR! I asked him to remove the spark plugs and he broke #4 getting it out. 3 of 4 spark plugs have the electrodes hammered flat, only #1 looks decent and it ain't that good. I told him to find another engine. Most of what we've been able to find are H code engines. Will an H code work in his car and if not, why? From what I've read, there's an air injection smog pump in the G code that the H code doesn't have. I thought maybe it was a difference between transmissions, but was wrong. I suspect he'll need another G code engine in order for the electronics not to throw a code looking for the smog pump and the car won't run right. Am I correct or would the H code engine be okay? Sorry for the long post, but he REALLY needs his car ASAP. He still has 2 years payments on it and I can't take him back and forth to work every day like I've been doing. He's a Marine and I respect that, but I'm disabled and so are my wife and daughter and they have frequent doctor appointments that we can't avoid. Any and all help and suggestions will be appreciated.
1.8 G code engine
- Thread starter Chuzz'
- Start date
Gobinator98
Member
Just look up the year and model on car-parts.com
It will show all engines the are compatible with your car in junkyards near your zip.
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It will show all engines the are compatible with your car in junkyards near your zip.
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Gobinator98
Member
The only difference I would think would be whether it has a flywheel or clutch. I would just search for an engine out of a car that has the same transmission otherwise you might have a bitch of a time mating the engine and transmission.
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I'm just wondering if the diameter of the input shaft on the 5 speed is the same size as the "tit" on the end of the torque converter for the automatic. If so, adding a pilot bearing for the 5 speed SHOULD make up the difference, right? I'm an old shade tree mechanic and DO NOT like the new stuff. Give me a big block Mopar to work on and I'm a happy camper.
Gobinator98
Member
Unfortunately I canโt give you a solid answer as I havenโt separated my engine and transmission yet. I planning to replace my automatic in my 2012 because it shifts terrible and I hate it.
Found a 6speed auto from a 2015 for $200. Has 43,000 miles on it. My current transmission has almost 150,000 and the engine has 51,000. I blew my head gasket in the interstate at around 125,400 miles.
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Found a 6speed auto from a 2015 for $200. Has 43,000 miles on it. My current transmission has almost 150,000 and the engine has 51,000. I blew my head gasket in the interstate at around 125,400 miles.
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Thanks, Gobinator98. I have located an engine from a manual shift car that's only $700 and only has 21,000 miles on it. I will recommend that Sean go this route. That'll take all the guesswork out and be a straight swap. Now then, is it easier to pull it out from the top or from underneath and transmission attached or removed and left in the car?
Gobinator98
Member
From what I have researched, it would be best to pull out the bottom to have the best clearance. You could pull it out the top but you have to remove the radiator fan and some other things to have clearance for the intake manifold
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Hmmm, I kind of had that feeling. I wonder if my 4 jack stands will get it high enough? Time to start doing some measurements. I'm of the opinion of pulling the head and whatever else we can remove from up top, just to lighten the load some and make the clearance issue just a little less high. We'll have to come up with some cribbing. Even though he found part of a piston under the car and the fact that 3 of 4 plugs were beat all to crap, he's HOPING it can be rebuilt. I told him even if that wasn't HIS piston, that it would cost more to rebuild than just getting another engine from the salvage yard.
He doesn't want to work on the car today at all. He's afraid God will drop it on him for not resting on the Sabbath! I told him God smiles on me every day when I'm working, no matter what day of the week it is. As long as I'm doing it in the name of Jesus, God forgives me and lets me get done what I need to get done. If I screw up, then I figure it's because I'm not paying attention. As for removing the engine, I have found 2 videos on Youtube that both show it being removed from the top. Now we just need to find an engine hoist when he gets his stimulus check.
Can anyone here verify that the correct spark plugs for this car is the NGK BKR6EIX? He said he changed the spark plugs before he did the timing belt and the car ran great. I asked why he was changing the belt and he said it was due. He DID NOT check the timing marks before disassembly. I'm thinking he must have one of the cams 180 degrees out because for some reason, the pistons have beat the electrodes flat on these plugs. One of the plugs is even kind of elongated and was a royal pain to get out. He broke it off and then had to borrow my 1/2" drive ratchet to twist it out. I'm surprised he didn't strip the threads out, but I don't see any clinging to the plug. The timing belt is still on and very tight! This thing has got me stumped so far. He doesn't want to pull the head and check the pistons, but neither of us has a bore scope to take a look inside the cylinders. I don't know any other way to check the pistons and cylinders. I don't even have a compression tester anymore.
Got a bore scope coming Saturday. I measured the piston piece that Sean found lying in his driveway and it measures 3". The bore on that engine is 3.17", so I'm pretty sure that piece came out the side of the block somewhere. We'll find out for sure Saturday. I can't convince him to go ahead and remove the head because of the damage to the valves. He thinks someone is playing a cruel joke on him and I am tired of explaining that nobody would take the time to remove the plugs, mash the electrodes flat on them and then reinstall them.
Update. Sean definitely needs a new engine. I put the bore scope down #4 cylinder and the top of the piston has multiple dings and dents. Then he said go to #1. At first it looked like #4, then moving the scope around, I could see a big chunk was missing. I moved the scope to #3 and there is NO PISTON at all in that cylinder. Just the connecting rod and wrist pin! He said forget #2, so I didn't look. In my 45 years plus of working on things from lawn mowers and weed eaters to big block Mopars, I've NEVER seen that happen. Now he agrees he needs an engine. I pulled the exhaust manifold for him yesterday and told him to go ahead and pull the head and intake. I want to get a look at how much damage there is to the head and pistons. Still haven't found the hole where the piece of piston came out, but suspect somewhere around the starter. Anyone of you guys here live in the Tampa/Orlando/Miami area and have a good 1.8 for a manual transmission car for sale? If so, let me know. Thanks
Guys, if you click on this link, you can see 4 photos I took of Seans engine. I have NEVER seen anything like this in my 50 years of fooling with cars. Could the tension on the timing belt have been too tight and caused all of this carnage?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DMT9iVv9nWiX6d638
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DMT9iVv9nWiX6d638
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JTee2017
Well-known member
I do not think it had anything to do with timing belt tension. Place the blame where it started.
Go back to post number 1 where it states he did not have the timing marks set properly and tried to start and run the engine: - -
" He didn't have the cam timing marks lined up and it wouldn't start. I looked at it and told him the timing marks were out of sync. He lined it all up, put it back together and drove it for about a week. He said it was running like crap . . . "
The damage was started there, probably some valves already bent, then realigned the timing belt and "force" the engine to try and run correctly with damaged components ? ? !
OF course the engine was destroyed. . . not surprising if a repair like a timing belt change is not carefully done.
Then force it to run afterwards with damaged valves and expect it to somehow all be "OK" ? !
If you've been doing auto repairs for 50 years this is the first time you've seen a botched repair job?
This is literally How To Destroy An Engine when attempting a critical repair if not savvy enough to do it.
Go back to post number 1 where it states he did not have the timing marks set properly and tried to start and run the engine: - -
" He didn't have the cam timing marks lined up and it wouldn't start. I looked at it and told him the timing marks were out of sync. He lined it all up, put it back together and drove it for about a week. He said it was running like crap . . . "
The damage was started there, probably some valves already bent, then realigned the timing belt and "force" the engine to try and run correctly with damaged components ? ? !
OF course the engine was destroyed. . . not surprising if a repair like a timing belt change is not carefully done.
Then force it to run afterwards with damaged valves and expect it to somehow all be "OK" ? !
If you've been doing auto repairs for 50 years this is the first time you've seen a botched repair job?
This is literally How To Destroy An Engine when attempting a critical repair if not savvy enough to do it.
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Let me clarify, I'M NOT AN ASE CERTIFIED MECHANIC. I have never claimed to be nor have I ever worked as a mechanic. All of my experience is from working with my father and self taught over the past 50 years. I've rebuilt multiple engines from lawn mowers to big block Mopars. My experience is all personal or friends and family. I have no idea what the hell happened to this engine, but I can concur that your hypothesis is probably spot on, JTee2017. It certainly sounds plausible to me. What pisses me off is that he never came over and said a word to me about it not running right until the damage had been done. And what a LOT of damage it is! I'm glad I wasn't in the Marine Corps when he was working on helicopters. I'd have been too scared to get in one he'd been working on! LOL
JTee2017
Well-known member
Ahh . .. I see now.
I agree. . . nothing worse than having to try and figure out or repair something only after it was boogered up.
Installing a timing belt correctly is not for novice folks and on some vehicles i would not want to do it. I even have anxiety letting someone else or a dealer do it.
The alignment kit for the cam shaft and timing belt install is a real help in this instance. But if not done right . . damage can be done the first time the key is turned.
Sad that this happened on such a newer 2016 Sonic. Was it high mileage or something? The timing belt replacement is recommended only after about 93K miles I believe. We had it done to daughters 2014 at about 90K miles. . . . $550 at the dealer.
I agree. . . nothing worse than having to try and figure out or repair something only after it was boogered up.
Installing a timing belt correctly is not for novice folks and on some vehicles i would not want to do it. I even have anxiety letting someone else or a dealer do it.
The alignment kit for the cam shaft and timing belt install is a real help in this instance. But if not done right . . damage can be done the first time the key is turned.
Sad that this happened on such a newer 2016 Sonic. Was it high mileage or something? The timing belt replacement is recommended only after about 93K miles I believe. We had it done to daughters 2014 at about 90K miles. . . . $550 at the dealer.
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