Help me decide. Want to go crazy on a build.

[JAVO]

I'm long winded so I hope you can fight through this. I've recently decided to build my Sonic out. I've thought about just selling it or trading it in and getting something different. I really like the 6.0 GTO or the 6.0 G8 but you never know what youre going to get with a used car and I'm just really happy with my little Sonic. I got it because I was tired of 11 MPG with my Jeep Rubicon on 35's, it's so much fun to drive, great on gas. I just love it. I've had 20+ cars in my life everything from trucks to MR2 turbos, to a Vette, an RX7 turbo and my all time favorite a 1980 Turbo Trans-AM but I honestly love this little car. I'm very happy with it and I want to build it out it's time.. I want to go crazy with it too. I know it's easy to act like youre going to go crazy on a forum but I truly am. If a vendor / shop would chime in on this it would be great. Purchase time on all of this is in the next 60 days. I want to do it all at once.

First. Exhaust. I want to go turbo back but I don't know which to get. Down pipe options seem to be limited and cat back options there are a few and I've seen a complete turbo back setup by ZZP. My concerns. I'm in Texas and I'm concerned about passing emissions. I will be getting a tune along with a programmer so this may omit all these worries but I want to make sure. Another major concern is the sound. I'm 38, not 16. I'm not interested in having a car that sounds like I have glass packs and a folgers can at the end. More power to you if you like that but to my old ears I just dont care for it. I have several friends that have Borla exhausts on their Subarus and I love that sound. From the turbo back what would you do (knowing what sound I like and don't)
Second. Intake. Which intake do you really like? There seem to be a few options here as well. Personally, just looking at the pictures, I like the DDM. I like that box / shield that goes around it. I don't like the look of the cone filter just laying in the corner of the engine bay. I'm just hoping I can get it all in white.
Third. I love the wooshing sound of the turbo. Seems like the bypass valves really exaggerate that sound but what is the actual gain from having one? And which would you choose?
Fourth. Tuner. Trifecta or HP tuners or is there another? I don't know the first thing about tuning a car so it sounds like Trifecta from BNR might be the way to go.
Fifth. Lowering springs. I like the look of the lowered car but I'd like to not sacrifice ride comfort. Which do you think is best? I have a wife and 2 kids we use the Sonic often on road trips. Do you have a favorite? Can you get a proper alignment afterwards?
Sixth. Is a heavy duty clutch absolutely necessary? I've read if you go crazy with the programming you need it. I've never changed a clutch so I'm pretty sure I would have to take this somewhere to be done. Not sure how much that would cost or how long I'd have to be without my car.
Seventh. Throttle Body Spacer. I want a proper boost gauge in my car. I saw where ZZP is offering a dual gauge pod to go on the dash above the radio and I really like that. I have no idea what the second gauge should be so if you have any ideas I'm open. Anyway, I have one of those devices that hook up to the obd port and gives all the info I could ever want but I'm really not happy with it. With it plugged in I cant get my onstar monthly reports and other things. With the throttle body spacer it mentions specifically hooking up a boost gauge. Has anyone done this? What are the other benefits?

I'm open to anything else some of you might recommend. There are some cosmetic things I want for the car as well. I think I can figure those out. Within the first 2 weeks of owning the car I got the shifter bushings. So those are already in. Really I just want to make my already fun to drive car a little more fun and improve performance without sacrificing my ride / comfort. When I do all of this I will try really hard to document everything with lots of pictures. I'd like to make a little sleeper out of this thing and would love your input. Sounds like Jerry at BNR is who I need to deal with, maybe if I go big and get everything at once he can give me a deal.

Looking forward to getting your input / advice. Hope you all had a great Christmas and have a great New Year!!

 

[Hoody32]

Sounds like you've done some serious research. Are the shifter bushing a good change?

 

[Swordsmith]

1) Exhaust. There's some power gain to be had here, but most of the reason it gets done is for the sound. If you're interested in staying quiet, you might want to stay stock, it's quiet and costs nothing to do. There are numerous options out there, though, if you do want to go. For power, the idea is to reduce restriction, so things like a larger diameter and removing parts or replacing them with better flowing ones can help a little, if you get a tune to prevent the ECU from stopping the extra power. But each of these also tends to increase the noise. Look for videos of people with different setups and figure out which sound you like, or at least can tolerate. One thing I would specifically recommend against would be the resonator delete... which I did. Turns out that doesn't really increase power at all, as a resonator isn't very restrictive, but it does cause a deep drone which is more annoying than actual noise.

2) Again intakes are going to increase the noise... but this one I really think you'll like, because the noise is that of the car breathing. You like the turbo whoosh, this is where you hear it. That said, if you're looking for power, you do want to reduce restrictions here, which all the aftermarket intakes do. But you also want to try to keep the air coming in cool; the Injen intake actually warms the air a little, the ZZP one is much better... but if I had it to do over I'd go with the DDM or the one MFab is doing, both of which include heat shielding to reduce that warming effect. Or, cheaper, just rip the snorkle out of your fender, replace the stock filter, and sub in new tubing from Autozone to get from the SAB to the intake. The SAB is the most "cold air" of the intakes on the market, after all.

3) There are two types of valve, the bypass (BPV) and blowoff (BOV). Stock, we have a BPV, which vents back into the intake, the BOV vents to the atmosphere. The theoretical reason to replace them is that when we dramatically increase the pressures involved, the stock BPV may eventually wear out. I have yet to see a report of this happening, and it doesn't really seem necessary. The BOV, however, will increase the sound you get when you go off boost. You could even mount a duck call on it!

4) In addition to Trifecta and HP Tuners, there's Bully Dog and Vermont Tuners. VT is very good and very willing to work with you. Trifecta is the standard around here, though, and if you aren't planning to do lots of crazy stuff and don't know much about cars, is probably the safe bet. Others will have to tell you about HP and BD, but both certainly have their adherents.

5) I'm still stock on springs, so I'll pass on this one

6) I was the first to put in a heavy duty clutch. I burned it out in less than two months. Replaced it, burned that out in another two months. Got a stock clutch as a temporary measure... it's lasted me over 6 months thus far, and I have a very aggressive set of mods, I'm up at 206hp and 215 ft-lbs of torque... and I do hard pulls up onramps almost every day. I think the stock clutch is worth more than we thought, and I'm dubious about the current state of "upgrade" clutches, although it has been over 8 months since I last tried one. Maybe they got the kinks worked out. Still, you could skip this and wait till you burn out the OEM one, if ever.

7) You can put a boost gauge in without putting in a TBS, just need to cut a line and add a T. The TBS isn't a bad way to do it either, just not the only option. You could also use the TBS to add a meth injection kit... which IMO would be the real reason to go this route.

7a) "Blocks Onstar" is a feature, not a bug. Onstar's monthly reports don't tell you anything your gauge won't tell you, only they tell you once a month, and your gauge will tell you many times per second. Do you really want a message telling you your oil has been too hot for 3 weeks, instead of right when it happens? And do you really want a third party to collect information about how fast you were driving, and potentially sell it to insurance companies, or have it subpoenaed by the police at some future date?

8) Lots of things you didn't add.

8a) E85 conversion. Adds power, but a pain because you can't always find E85 pumps, particularly when travelling.

8a1) Alcohol sensor. Allows you to swap between E85 and gasoline at will, run 3/4ths a tank of one mixed with the other, whatever. Eliminates the "pain" part of E85

8b) methanol/water injection. rumor has it this provides the same additional power as running E85, but you basically have to fill your own one gallon tank periodically, so there's not the problem with finding an E85 pump... on the other hand you have to fiddle around with that tank all the time, and there are some concerns about what happens if you run empty.

8c) Turbo upgrade. I'm running a rebuilt and improved turbo from Vermont Tuners. Prebuilder is working on swapping a completely larger turbo in. Note that other problems crop up when you do this, for example I'm running into valve float preventing me from using all the potential power I could have.

8d) engine and transmission mounts. Get more of the power from your engine to the ground. But I wouldn't recommend this one for you, as it vibrates the whole car; less bad after a few thousand miles, but it's still there 30,000 miles after I installed them.

8e) intercooler tubes. And.. well actually there's lots and lots more stuff, but anyway this list should get you started.

 

[ahtoxa]

Something I've learned a while ago when modifying offroad rigs for wheeling.

Do NOT go nuts and do it all at once. Why? Because the less challenging it is, the less blood, sweat and tears go into it, the less you're going to appreciate it. Then, a year down the line you're going to get bored with it and either sell the car as-is or remove mods and go back to stock-ish. Most people sell the entire car at the point.

It's kind of like drinking soda. You know the feeling you get when you take your first sip of ice-cold, fizzy coke? You set it down, and take another sip. Tastes good.

Now open a new can and chug the coke. You'll be a teary mess with coke fizz coming out your nose. Not much enjoyment there, is there?

 

[TurboSonic18]

JAVO,

I also agreed with what ahtoxa is saying about not going crazy all at once. I've told myself that I can't buy another part until the current one is installed.

To fill that extra gauge spot you could use a water temp or oil pressure.
I'm currently making a triple gauge pod for the top of the dash and am using boost, water temp, and oil pressure.

egauges.com is a good place to view many of the gauge choices out there.

-TurboSonic18

 

[TurboSonic18]

Sounds like you've done some serious research. Are the shifter bushing a good change?

I believe the shifter bushings are worth the $20-25 you spend on them. I also installed a short shifter when I put the bushings in. Now the shifts are crisp, firmer, and shorter. It feels like a whole new set up.

 

[JAVO]

I put shifter bushings in within the first couple of weeks after driving it off the lot. I think the stock bushings were still too new because I couldn't tell a difference when I put the aluminum ones in.
I'm going to bolt on sections at a time I just want to buy it all at once. I've had the car a year and a half now, I'm ready for more power (because race car right?)
I've built out my jeeps before, looking forward to doing the sonic. There's just some things I'm not sure what the performance benefit is. Like atmospheric vs forged bypass valve?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Swordsmith]

The difference between a BPV, "bypass valve" and a BOV, "blowoff valve" (the latter is "atmospheric") is what it does with the extra air. Bypass valve feeds it back to the intake manifold, blowoff valve vents it to the atmosphere. Since the pressurized air is potentially dirty, this means a little pollution every time you let up on the pedal. But more sound.

"Forge" in this instance is the name of a company that makes replacement valves that fit our engine, nothing to do with what the valve actually does.

The basic fact is that the replacement valves don't do anything that the OEM valve does (well, except that the BOV dumps the air a different place), but are presumably tougher and more able to hold up under the pressures an upgraded engine is going to subject them to.

MFab has a writeup here on bypassing the solenoid to the bypass valve

 

[JAVO]

Dude. I don't know you, but we need to be friends..
I'm going to send you a PM (if thats ok) I have some questions I think you can answer.

1) Exhaust. There's some power gain to be had here, but most of the reason it gets done is for the sound. If you're interested in staying quiet, you might want to stay stock, it's quiet and costs nothing to do. There are numerous options out there, though, if you do want to go. For power, the idea is to reduce restriction, so things like a larger diameter and removing parts or replacing them with better flowing ones can help a little, if you get a tune to prevent the ECU from stopping the extra power. But each of these also tends to increase the noise. Look for videos of people with different setups and figure out which sound you like, or at least can tolerate. One thing I would specifically recommend against would be the resonator delete... which I did. Turns out that doesn't really increase power at all, as a resonator isn't very restrictive, but it does cause a deep drone which is more annoying than actual noise.

2) Again intakes are going to increase the noise... but this one I really think you'll like, because the noise is that of the car breathing. You like the turbo whoosh, this is where you hear it. That said, if you're looking for power, you do want to reduce restrictions here, which all the aftermarket intakes do. But you also want to try to keep the air coming in cool; the Injen intake actually warms the air a little, the ZZP one is much better... but if I had it to do over I'd go with the DDM or the one MFab is doing, both of which include heat shielding to reduce that warming effect. Or, cheaper, just rip the snorkle out of your fender, replace the stock filter, and sub in new tubing from Autozone to get from the SAB to the intake. The SAB is the most "cold air" of the intakes on the market, after all.

3) There are two types of valve, the bypass (BPV) and blowoff (BOV). Stock, we have a BPV, which vents back into the intake, the BOV vents to the atmosphere. The theoretical reason to replace them is that when we dramatically increase the pressures involved, the stock BPV may eventually wear out. I have yet to see a report of this happening, and it doesn't really seem necessary. The BOV, however, will increase the sound you get when you go off boost. You could even mount a duck call on it!

4) In addition to Trifecta and HP Tuners, there's Bully Dog and Vermont Tuners. VT is very good and very willing to work with you. Trifecta is the standard around here, though, and if you aren't planning to do lots of crazy stuff and don't know much about cars, is probably the safe bet. Others will have to tell you about HP and BD, but both certainly have their adherents.

5) I'm still stock on springs, so I'll pass on this one

6) I was the first to put in a heavy duty clutch. I burned it out in less than two months. Replaced it, burned that out in another two months. Got a stock clutch as a temporary measure... it's lasted me over 6 months thus far, and I have a very aggressive set of mods, I'm up at 206hp and 215 ft-lbs of torque... and I do hard pulls up onramps almost every day. I think the stock clutch is worth more than we thought, and I'm dubious about the current state of "upgrade" clutches, although it has been over 8 months since I last tried one. Maybe they got the kinks worked out. Still, you could skip this and wait till you burn out the OEM one, if ever.

7) You can put a boost gauge in without putting in a TBS, just need to cut a line and add a T. The TBS isn't a bad way to do it either, just not the only option. You could also use the TBS to add a meth injection kit... which IMO would be the real reason to go this route.

7a) "Blocks Onstar" is a feature, not a bug. Onstar's monthly reports don't tell you anything your gauge won't tell you, only they tell you once a month, and your gauge will tell you many times per second. Do you really want a message telling you your oil has been too hot for 3 weeks, instead of right when it happens? And do you really want a third party to collect information about how fast you were driving, and potentially sell it to insurance companies, or have it subpoenaed by the police at some future date?

8) Lots of things you didn't add.

8a) E85 conversion. Adds power, but a pain because you can't always find E85 pumps, particularly when travelling.

8a1) Alcohol sensor. Allows you to swap between E85 and gasoline at will, run 3/4ths a tank of one mixed with the other, whatever. Eliminates the "pain" part of E85

8b) methanol/water injection. rumor has it this provides the same additional power as running E85, but you basically have to fill your own one gallon tank periodically, so there's not the problem with finding an E85 pump... on the other hand you have to fiddle around with that tank all the time, and there are some concerns about what happens if you run empty.

8c) Turbo upgrade. I'm running a rebuilt and improved turbo from Vermont Tuners. Prebuilder is working on swapping a completely larger turbo in. Note that other problems crop up when you do this, for example I'm running into valve float preventing me from using all the potential power I could have.

8d) engine and transmission mounts. Get more of the power from your engine to the ground. But I wouldn't recommend this one for you, as it vibrates the whole car; less bad after a few thousand miles, but it's still there 30,000 miles after I installed them.

8e) intercooler tubes. And.. well actually there's lots and lots more stuff, but anyway this list should get you started.