Who Killed the Electric Car?

[ScooterMcTavish]

Just watched this documentary last night on Netflix. Not a conspiracy theorist, but money sure does make the world go round, doesn't it?

Anyone else see this?

Honestly, if I had watched this before going car shopping, I may have very well skipped visiting the GM dealer.

 

[007CobaltLS]

I watched that one quite a while ago on Netflix...it is very interesting. It's quite sad too.

Doesn't change my opinion on the car makers at all...it's just disappointing that the oil companies have such control.

 

[River_Rat]

I watched that one quite a while ago on Netflix...it is very interesting. It's quite sad too.

Doesn't change my opinion on the car makers at all...it's just disappointing that the oil companies have such control.

oil, gas, coal, etc. Yes it is a shame.

 

[ChrisJ]

Didn't see it my self but its a bit confusing from my perspective right now.

Most electric in the US at least, is generated by either coal or fuels which come from crude.


BTW, on the same subject electric companies were in bed with general electric in the late 1920s - early 1930s when they developed the refrigerators I'm restoring two of. Absorbtion type refrigerators which use heat (natural gas, propane etc) are silent and more efficient. But, GE owned the electric fridge and was selling it often through electric companies who of course really pushed it. If that never happened, we would all probably have absorbtion types which have no moving parts and make no noise.

 

[mitdr774]

EV1 was an experiment. That was all it was ever intended to be. Electric cars have been around for a very long time, and for a very long time have not been a cost effective replacement for fuel. Old style batteries are very heavy and bulky, new style are very expensive. Until battery technology get to a point where it can compete on a cost, reliability, and useability front it will never be a viable replacement. What is killing the electric car is the same thing that killed it nearly 100 years ago.

 

[ChrisJ]

EV1 was an experiment. That was all it was ever intended to be. Electric cars have been around for a very long time, and for a very long time have not been a cost effective replacement for fuel. Old style batteries are very heavy and bulky, new style are very expensive. Until battery technology get to a point where it can compete on a cost, reliability, and useability front it will never be a viable replacement. What is killing the electric car is the same thing that killed it nearly 100 years ago.

Yup.

 

[Kuntryboy865]

If the volt wasnt 40 grand id probably buy one.

 

[ChrisJ]

If the volt wasnt 40 grand id probably buy one.

If we're talking about "what ifs" how about if a Tesla wasn't $100K many would buy them.

For me it won't work as we drive 110 miles a day to work round trip.

 

[Swordsmith]

The Volt would work fine for a 110mile round trip, that's the whole point of it, it has the same unlimited range as car powered entirely by regular fuel, since it carries a gasoline powered generator/motor along with its electric motor.

110 miles would mean 38 miles of electric range and then 72 miles of gas range. Since whatever car you're driving now is getting zero miles of electric, you'd still be better off with the Volt.

What kills the Volt is its sticker price, pure and simple. If the Sonic had a Volt powertrain option available for under 20K, I bet half the folks on this forum would be driving that.

 

[ChrisJ]

The Volt would work fine for a 110mile round trip, that's the whole point of it, it has the same unlimited range as car powered entirely by regular fuel, since it carries a gasoline powered generator/motor along with its electric motor.

110 miles would mean 38 miles of electric range and then 72 miles of gas range. Since whatever car you're driving now is getting zero miles of electric, you'd still be better off with the Volt.

What kills the Volt is its sticker price, pure and simple. If the Sonic had a Volt powertrain option available for under 20K, I bet half the folks on this forum would be driving that.

Yea but this all falls into the "should've could've would've" catagory. The $40K pricetag means $22K more than a Sonic and I would never make that up in fuel savings. In fact I doubt I'd make more than $5K back in the lifetime of the vehicle.

The Volt is useful if you work close to home and even then, how much are you spending on fuel in the first place. I honestly think overall from a fuel savings standpoint the Volt is a failure and we will see it on worlds greatest blunders in the future.

Besides that smith, the Volt is NOT an electric car, we were talking about electric cars originally where the Volt is nothing more than a hybird. There is not a single electric car on the market that will do more than 70 miles or so.

 

[Sliver]

And if you could find a place to park and plug in at work, you'd get even better mileage, and for the trip home, the first 38 miles would be on your employer

 

[Opticon]

Electric batteries suck as a whole. They are heavy as hell, expensive to replace, and I have never had a battery powered device where the charge life was long enough. Electric batteries have always been a terrible match for vehicles. Hydrogen is more versitile as a "fill-up" fuel if the infrastructure can be deveoped but Citroen's idea to use compressed air as a battery seems to be the best match for a vehicle yet as it is lightweight and non-flammable.

 

[$ub$onic]

This is a off topic but related post
As some may know I make my own power

A onan 35k generator charges up a battery bank witch goes through 3 inverters to run my house. The last set of battery's lasted 12 years and they where ran dry a few times. I expect 15 out of these if properly maintained.

The battery's will last 1.5-5 days with out a charge depending on load

 

[007CobaltLS]

This is a off topic but related post
As some may know I make my own power

A onan 35k generator charges up a battery bank witch goes through 3 inverters to run my house. The last set of battery's lasted 12 years and they where ran dry a few times. I expect 15 out of these if properly maintained.

The battery's will last 1.5-5 days with out a charge depending on load

Very nice...and on a side note...good job...supporting my ex wife's company...she works for Cummins locally...MN is where the generators come from.

What does it cost to fuel the generator for a year? Just curious? Would it be worthwhile to add any kind of wind power or solar panels to help charge those batteries to save more money in the long run or is it cheap enough/efficient enough just to use the generator?

 

[$ub$onic]

Free! We have 2 gas wells on the farm. We have 2 onans right now a 34k and a 32k both are ford motors the 34 is a 300 straight and the 32 is a 270 straight . The 270 blew a head gasket at 1000 hours witch is odd. The 300 is 9000 and never been apart. We have a little single cylinder onan floating around that has 15+k hours on it amazing little motor
I was playing with a 210k Kohler with a 6 cylinder turbo diesel on it. Dang thing went through 5 gallon of fuel in a hurry.

 

[sx sonic]

I saw that movie awhile ago. Intresting indeed, I can't say I'm suprised by it but wholly crap electric cars have not come very far since the EV1 (and the three other competitors that made their own version). That is sad, the govt does it make it much better, always talking about emmisions and MPG and yet have no idea there are some relatively effective solutions out there. A modern EV1 would be really cool, haven't seen anything yet that approaches its practicality.


Hybrids are the same story. Why not use electric motors for driving and a small generator/engine to charge the battery when it gets low? I think the volt comes closest to my idea of a smart hybrid (although still not that close). And people that really hypermile the fit make the engine and motors work in a practical manner.

Idk maybe its just me but I find a lot of this stuff very suspect and when a vehicle is mandated or produced for low emmisions or mpg they don't appear to be made to reach their end goal as efficiently and as practically as possible (case in point a hybrid or electric car laden with electronic nicities?!)

 

[mitdr774]

What kills the Volt is its sticker price, pure and simple. If the Sonic had a Volt powertrain option available for under 20K, I bet half the folks on this forum would be driving that.

Last I heard (from a GM engineer) the battery pack alone is about $10K of the cost of the Volt. The Volt is expensive due to the cost of the parts required for the electric drive portion of the car. Personally I am not a fan of a 360 VDC battery down the middle of my car. I also drive to much for the limited battery range the Volt offers. Real world driving results in a much lower than advertised range, especially if you use things like wipers, headlights, and the heater in the winter.

 

[ScooterMcTavish]

Things that make you go hmmmmm....

Interesting thing I found in the doc was the company that developed batteries that could get the EV1s something like a 130 mi range. GM bought it, wouldn't allow them to promote the batteries, then sold the company to Texaco.

Hmmmmmmmm.....

Also enjoyed the piece about how the hydrogen fuel cell already looks like a failure due to lack durability of the engines, lack of infrastructure, etc.

Hmmmmmmmm.....especially when there is already an electric infrastructure in place. Almost like a bait-and-switch to distract people from the limited success electric vehicles were already having.

And finally, why does Europe get all the high efficiency low displacement, incredibly high MPG motors that are never offered in North America. And these engines being manufactured by the North American auto manufacturers that claim they can't hit US mileage targets THAT THEY ARE ALREADY HITTING in Europe.

Hmmmmmmmm........

Disquieting thoughts on a Sunday morning.

 

[oldertech]

If the volt wasnt 40 grand id probably buy one.

Used ones are considerably cheaper, as I've seen them in the 27k range. We're thinking of going that route some time this year because we love the Volt.

 

[mitdr774]

Hmmmmmmmm.....especially when there is already an electric infrastructure in place. Almost like a bait-and-switch to distract people from the limited success electric vehicles were already having.

And finally, why does Europe get all the high efficiency low displacement, incredibly high MPG motors that are never offered in North America. And these engines being manufactured by the North American auto manufacturers that claim they can't hit US mileage targets THAT THEY ARE ALREADY HITTING in Europe.

.

Electric infrastructure needs a lot of work to support mass use of plug in vehicles.

European cars hitting these numbers may not meet US emissions or safety standards. Good chance that a lot also wont meet what customers here expect.