Pre Bailout GM vs Post

[turbooh12]

Is it just me or did GM become a much better/more forward thinking/unique company after the bailout? (Politics of bailouts aside)
For example pre bail GM kept the same Silverado more or less with minor upgrades for over a decade, most if not all of their small cars were terrible and basically just made to say they have something in the segment rather than be competitive.
That fugly 90s interior was used on literally every car and truck, even their 50k 2003 vette couldn't get a unique set of switches and stereo that weren't like the blazer of 93.
Everything seemed to be done in an effort to get the cheapest cost and use as many parts across all their model lines as possible, no matter how low quality it may look.

Post bailout gm just seems better. Everything stays modern, even the Malibu has been updated a couple times already and gotten rave reviews.
They appear to design cars separately from eachother now...the interior of the new stingray looks nothing like a Silverado or my sonic. That's good.
It's a totally different, better company imho.

What think?

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AdorableKaren]

I wish I could judge but this is the first gm vehicle I've really been in. If it was an American made car in my family, it was usually ford nothing else. Cool observations though

 

[Eric Smit]

design them separately like the C7 Corvette and the Camaro taillights?


-Eric Smit

 

[mitdr774]

They just do a better job of hiding the cross car sharing of parts and designs now.

 

[turbooh12]

They just do a better job of hiding the cross car sharing of parts and designs now.

Which in my opinion is better and more forward thinking as well...the realize that when people buy a malibu over a cruze they don't want it to be the same car...they want it to look different. lol. I kid you not, the radio and window switches in my co workers 88ish gmc pickup look just like my mom's 2000 blazer... wat.

Also to Eric, thats a good point with the taillights. I personally think they belong on the vette, but a Camaro never has had 4 lights until now...those should have been a different design to save the 4 light design for the vette, but alas they did not. :/

 

[slitzell]

I wouldnt say a government controlled gm runs better than pre bailout. I think it has to do more with the recession. Things are more competitive now, so companies have to push harder to gain sales. I think all car companies have stepped their game up.

 

[Opticon]

Yes. It took a taxpayer-funded second chance for them to catch up to the global alliance business model that Chrysler and Ford have been using for a decade now. Unfortunately any pricing advantage GM now has over its competitors will dry up once the federal subsidies are removed, cars like the Sonic will have to be priced in the mid 20s, and I will no longer be interested in buying one.

They will not be competative until they are allowed to pay less than $20 an hour for meat heads that tighten bolts and fill fluid reservoirs.

 

[turbooh12]

Yes. It took a taxpayer-funded second chance for them to catch up to the global alliance business model that Chrysler and Ford have been using for a decade now. Unfortunately any pricing advantage GM now has over its competitors will dry up once the federal subsidies are removed, cars like the Sonic will have to be priced in the mid 20s, and I will no longer be interested in buying one.

They will not be competative until they are allowed to pay less than $20 an hour for meat heads that tighten bolts and fill fluid reservoirs.

Valid point and I agree at least with the Ford portion, it took Chrysler getting bailed out and bought by Fiat to turn things around. The auto unions definitely put the strain on the auto companies. I make $12/hr making commercials at our small station and that requires a degree...I guess I should have skipped college and moved to Detroit so I could get $20/hr to put on a wheel.

 

[slitzell]

Some of the assembly line workers that have been around a long time make much more than 20 an hr. labor cost is the biggest reason why american cars are so expensive, and why there are large tariffs on otherwise cheaper imports

 

[turbooh12]

Yeah I heard some make near or greater than $60/hr for some things. (I don't remember where I saw that) Nothing on the assembly line requires that much pay. Maybe the people designing the systems that help us not die, sure, but any of the assembly stuff is pretty easy when its on the line compared to when you or I work on the same car...because ours already has the other stuff in the way but they get to put it in in order.

 

[slitzell]

Yep some of the assembly line people make in excess of 50 an hr, which is absurd. If the car companies built their stuff in FL they wouldn't have to worry about the unions lol. Im all about fair wage for a job, but assembly line work isnt anything more than basic skills

 

[turbooh12]

 

[Opticon]

Valid point and I agree at least with the Ford portion, it took Chrysler getting bailed out and bought by Fiat to turn things around.

Well, I didn't say it worked for them, just that they have been using the global model. The Germans raped them blind (turning a profit on the Merc parts they were forced to use) and the Cerberus bean counters did little more than cheapen everything to squeeze money out of the existing lineup.

I'm still not sure why we bothered to save them... and I'm a Mopar guy.

 

[mitdr774]

Total compensation might approach $50-60/hour for someone thathas been there a long time, but actual hourly rate is no where near that. Also, something like 60% of the staff at Orion Assembly is on the newer low tier pay scale. This scale is well below $20/hr. I would venture to guess that more of the cost of a car is from covering law suits and paying execs/non assembly salaries. Every time someone sues a manufacture and wins some stupid amount of money the cost of that companies product just went up a little. Add in the federaly mandated crap that we do not really need on cars if people just learn how to drive and you get another couple grand added to the cost, if not more. Many things contribute to insane prices of vehicles, not just the wage of the assembly workers. But what do I know, im just a union electrician that gets bashed by everyone that feels as though 10% of the workforce in this country is the problem (about 25% in my state).

 

[slitzell]

Unions are just one of the problems. The tax system is another, but that is a different topic.

Labor cost is def one of the highest costs in an automobile. The government mandated safety features is another.

Unions do nothing but exert monopsony(not monopoly) power to hinder employment by keeping wage rates higher

 

[mitdr774]

Once again, how is 10% of the workforce in this country the cause of the problems??? I could argue this topic but this thread is not the place for it.

 

[laborsmith]

1) GM has a lot of plants, but only seventeen final assembly plants. The two in South Korea and the two in Canada are organized and their workers are represented by unions recognized as strong. I believe the two Mexican plants are organized but the union is not considered strong. The eleven plants on the US are scattered across both union and right to work states.

2) Design and engineering are now oriented toward making final assembly easier to do correctly (or more difficult to do incorrectly) but I attribute this less to the government and more to GM slowly achieving a goal it realized it needed to meet in the eighties but did not start working toward until the nineties.

3) During the bailout we learned Toyota assembly workers made more per hour than GM assembly workers, to the chagrin of Tenn. Sen. Bob Corker who had at a press conference said just the opposite.

4) There is a difference pre and post. For example, pre I could get specific dates as to week of production, date of assembly and expected date of delivery to dealer during the course of production. After, I get dates that are often moved and my RS was still listed as scheduled to be built the week of October 22 even as it went down the line the first week of November.

In closing, I twice worked summers at GMC in Pontiac and decided I never wanted to work on an assembly line again, and, I am one of those shareholders who saw their shares drop from over $50 per share to nothing in a very short time. I put this info in here as full disclosure as these two facts may have an effect on my thinking.

Laborsmith

 

[Dragcamaro]

i feel like gm is getting better, i appreciate old gm, say 02 and earlier, and new gm, 11 and up. In between that i called it the plastic years where they made terrible cars, like the cobalt, uplander, malibu of that gen, impala, and the 5th gen camaro.

Im glad to see theyre concerned about weight now, ive drove an ats and was very impressed. Im hoping that the next camaro they build uses that platform and weighs close to 3000 pounds. I can dream.

I like the new lacrosses, although theyre are a bit over engineered and i dont know how much i trust the 3.6 v6, that engine alone in the enclaves, traverses and acadias keeps most service departments busy.

If you check out the interior in the new for 13 enclaves and traverses, they did a real good job. I was pretty impressed

 

[laborsmith]

Your wish, Dragcamaro, will come true as the next generation Camaro will be built in Lansing, MI on the same line as the ATS. It is rumored that that body was engineered to accept a V8 so it could be used for the Camaro.

Laborsmith

 

[slitzell]

Laborsmith you always chime in with your camaro knowledge lol. Go back to work and save and get a ZL1. And post some pics lol