Intermittent starting - no crank

[pcguy]

Here's my take on a software update to the BCM:

The only way that a software update can fix this problem is for the problem to be associated with conditions on the ground at the time of each incident. Don't claim to have a crystal ball, but in all my 35+ years of building, repairing, troubleshooting and programming computers, the only time a computer problem is intermittent is when the problem emanates from a hardware failure, ie, a loose connection somewhere.

I have reviewed every incident I have experienced looking for a common environmental factor and have failed to come up with anything. So I'm not convinced that the BCM update will prove to be the fix. What it really appears to be is GM going through the motions and trying to do something in the face of not knowing what to do.

 

[tjfees]

. . .
I have reviewed every incident I have experienced looking for a common environmental factor and have failed to come up with anything. So I'm not convinced that the BCM update will prove to be the fix. What it really appears to be is GM going through the motions and trying to do something in the face of not knowing what to do.

Well, you're right again. The BCM update did not fix it. I picked up the car and drove it to the local rec center. Went back to the car 1-1/2 hours later and it would not start. Got a rental, and they flat-bedded it back to the dealer. One more time and I'm going to invoke the Iowa lemon law. If the dealer service center cannot repair a vehicle after being in three times for the same problem then a dispute or lawsuit under the lemon law is my recourse. I don't blame the service guys. As you mentioned, no one seems to know what to do!

What a letdown this new car buying experience is!

For what it's worth, my Case# is 71-1037643121

 

[sonic12]

I am also having this same problem with my sonic. Its at the dealer right now for the second time.

 

[pcguy]

Hey TJfees and Sonic12, would you guys post the name of the dealerships you are working with and the name/phone for the Service Manager?

 

[pcguy]

Mabe we can isolate this to a batch made at a particular time. Here's the last five of the VIN 40624 and the approximate build date of 12/22/11.

How about yours?

 

[tjfees]

Mabe we can isolate this to a batch made at a particular time. Here's the last five of the VIN 40624 and the approximate build date of 12/22/11.
How about yours?

Last five of my VIN: 35183

Hey pcguy, is there a way you can check the build date? I'm curious because my car had 129 miles on it when I bought it on 2-6-12. I'd think the problem should have been noticed by then - before I bought it!

My Dealer: Pat McGrath ChevyLand, Cedar Rapids, IA 319-393-6300
Service Lane Manager: Bill Pierce 319-393-6300 ext 226
Service Advisor: Dave Beck 319-294-3117

Update: New keys and a new theft deterrent module are on rush order. Hopefully, they will get them tomorrow. opcorn: Will post results later.

 

[pcguy]

The simplest way to get the build date is to ask the SA or SM for a VIS (I think that's the name of it) report. The report is a wealth of info and includes the build date. The invoice date will be close to the build date and is shown on the invoice, if you got a copy of it.

Based on the vin, yours was built weeks before mine???

The VIS report might even show that the problem existed before you bought it - don't want to think about that one.

 

[pcguy]

BTW, if they are just now ordering keys and a module, what did they do previously???

 

[tjfees]

BTW, if they are just now ordering keys and a module, what did they do previously???

All the details are in previous posts. They have checked wiring, connectors, ground terminals, cleaned excess paint off connections, and reflashed the BCM.
I'm looking into getting an GM VIS report or going to CARFAX.

 

[Casper]

I had the no response thing from my remote today. Using my Sonic to go to work because my truck was in for service.
Pressed unlock and nothing, pressed lock, no response, no flashing lights or horn chirp.

So I'm thinking, well this is just great! Gonna be late for work.

Trying to think what to do, and before I opened it manually with the key, I pushed the hatch opening button on the back door and the lights flashed and the car unlocked. Weird or what? Seems to work properly for now.

 

[sonic12]

The last 5 of my vin are 01725.

Dealer: Dick Genthe Chevrolet Southgate, MI 48195 (877) 889-0164
Service Mgr: Andrew Genthe (734)530-2119
Service Advisor: Gary Cooley (734(283-3400

 

[pcguy]

I had the no response thing from my remote today. Using my Sonic to go to work because my truck was in for service.
Pressed unlock and nothing, pressed lock, no response, no flashing lights or horn chirp.

So I'm thinking, well this is just great! Gonna be late for work.

Trying to think what to do, and before I opened it manually with the key, I pushed the hatch opening button on the back door and the lights flashed and the car unlocked. Weird or what? Seems to work properly for now.

Hi Casper, have you also experienced the issue with the engine not starting?

BTW, love the color you chose.

 

[tjfees]

I had the no response thing from my remote today. . .
Pressed unlock and nothing, pressed lock, no response, no flashing lights or horn chirp. . . . Trying to think what to do, and before I opened it manually with the key, I pushed the hatch opening button on the back door and the lights flashed and the car unlocked. Weird or what? Seems to work properly for now.

Could be related to the theft-deterrent system. Keep an eye on it.

I got the GMVIS report on my Sonic from Fichtner Chevrolet by email. The build date is 12/12/2011. My car had 4 unrelated service issues from 12/15/2011 to 1/18/2012, mostly mechanical. My window sticker says the car was delivered to Turpin Chevrolet in Geneseo, IL. As I mentioned earlier, the car had 129 miles on it when I bought it. Very interesting history for a new car.

Car is in the shop today waiting on new keys and new theft-deterrent module. Will report later.

 

[sonic12]

Got a call from my service adviser at the dealer. He said that they contacted a gm engineer for technical support. The engineer told them to replace the under hood fuse box. They ordered the part and I guess time will tell.

By the way the first time I had the no start situation and took it to the dealer. They said painted ground connections were cleaned like tjfees.

 

[Casper]

pcguy, no problems with no cranking so far, but I kind of have to think if it happens once, with 200 kms.on it (sorry we've had metric so long I forget miles), probably going to happen again. I find it intriguing that pushing the hatch open button triggered the system to unlock.
I like the color also, but it seems kind of boring overall, a couple of Z28 stripes would fix it up pretty quick though! I'd prefer more of a charcoal siver, but that is all they have right now as you know! How's the acceleration on that ZR1?!!!!!!!!!!!

tjfees, I will definitely keep an eye on it, thanks!

 

[Papasonic]

Could be related to the theft-deterrent system. Keep an eye on it.

I got the GMVIS report on my Sonic from Fichtner Chevrolet by email. The build date is 12/12/2011. My car had 4 unrelated service issues from 12/15/2011 to 1/18/2012, mostly mechanical. My window sticker says the car was delivered to Turpin Chevrolet in Geneseo, IL. As I mentioned earlier, the car had 129 miles on it when I bought it. Very interesting history for a new car.

Car is in the shop today waiting on new keys and new theft-deterrent module. Will report later.

tjfees,
Not necessarily on topic to this thread; I saw your Sonic at Turpin Chevrolet in Geneseo, prior to being delivered to your dealer. I live about 12 miles from that dealer, and work part time at business 2 blocks from that dealer.

Papasonic

 

[pcguy]

Got a call from my service adviser at the dealer. He said that they contacted a gm engineer for technical support. The engineer told them to replace the under hood fuse box. They ordered the part and I guess time will tell.

Had a conversation about the fuse box with the tech at one point - he suggested that if power to a module was the issue, other codes would be present. Couldn't argue with that, but maybe the engineer knows for sure. It certainly could be that a single loose connection could be the common denominator for both the no start and the no response to the remote.

 

[tjfees]

tjfees,
Not necessarily on topic to this thread; I saw your Sonic at Turpin Chevrolet in Geneseo, prior to being delivered to your dealer. I live about 12 miles from that dealer, and work part time at business 2 blocks from that dealer.
Papasonic

Hi Papasonic,

Thanks for posting. Yes, I LOVE the car and I love driving it. My other car is a Corvette and the Sonic is almost as much fun to drive. I just hope this issue gets resolved so I can drive it with confidence. I plan to put on some side graphics later if the no-start fix works. I'll post pics then.

Yesterday, I did get a call from Tracy at GM Customer Service. He was responding to the online submittal that I made last week at pcguys recommendation. We went over the history of my issue and the dates and time that my Sonic has been in for this repair. He was going to call Pat McGrath for service details. Tracy was also going to elevate the issue to the GM District Specialist. Hopefully, that will get all their field reps and GM engineering on the same page with this. It is NOT an isolated case, obviously.

Pat McGraths service guys got the new keys and theft-deterrent module yesterday installed and checked out. They are test driving and if the problem does not reoccur for them, I will pick it up today. Let you know later. . . .

 

[pcguy]

Here's the latest:

Went to the dealer this morning to drop off the Sonic and to have the ZR1 looked at for a couple of things. While I'm waiting for the Z, the SA gets on the line with an engineer who refers him to PIT5030C (aka document ID 2717329).

This tech note is currently only associated with the 2010-2012 Regals, Equinox, Cruz and Terrain. Likely to soon be associated with the Sonic.

What it say is:

Customers may experience an intermittent no crank. The design of the key and fob is to have the key extended straight out. If the key is not in the fully locked position and the head is angled down, the vehicle may not start. This may also be caused by the customer contacting the release button on the fob when inserting the key in to the ignition.

If the vehicle will not crank, remove the key and make sure it's in its fully extended position. Reinsert and try again.

When trying the above with the SA and SM present, several observations were made.
1) This was the first time the problem was replicated at will.
2) When attempting this and when the engine actually starts, the problem
will not be replicated until x number (30?) of seconds have transpired.

When leaving the dealership later, I was not able to cause the problem to happen.

This doesn't seem to address the isssue of the remote not unlocking the car, but it seems like progress.

More to follow..............

 

[tjfees]

Here's the latest:
. . .
This tech note is currently only associated with the 2010-2012 Regals, Equinox, Cruz and Terrain. Likely to soon be associated with the Sonic.
What it say is:
Customers may experience an intermittent no crank. The design of the key and fob is to have the key extended straight out. It the key is not in the fully locked position and the head of the is angled don, the vehicle may not start. This may als be caused by the custgomer contacting the release button on the fob when inserting the key in to the ignition.
If the vehicle will not crank, remove the key and make sure it's in its fully extended position. Reinsert and try again.
. . .

I picked mine up today and immediately started it with the key in the bent position and had trouble starting a couple times. The service mgr. cycled the locks and I drove it home. FYI, he said that if you cycle the locks make sure you lock the doors with the key fob and press the unlock TWICE before starting.
I just tried my car with straight key and it starts fine. Thanks for the tip!!