My very unpleasant $2,004.00 experience with vTuner Vermont Tuning

[13_Sonic_RS]

My very unpleasant $2,004.00 experience with vTuner Vermont Tuning

On 8/29/13 I purchased an upgraded turbocharger assembly, water methanol system, and tuning services in exchange of $2,004.00 from Vermont Tuning LLC for a 2013 Chevrolet Sonic.

After waiting over 3 weeks, I finally received and installed my new turbo.

After only 128 miles of use, the propeller shaft in the turbo broke behind the turbine causing catastrophic turbo failure. Oil dumped into the exhaust causing an epic smoke screen that halted 4 lanes of freeway traffic and summoned the highway patrol to the scene.

After a $120 tow bill, my broken car was home.

I immediately contacted Brian Blair of Vermont Tuning LLC and alerted him of the situation. His reply was to accuse me of using an improper tune, or starving the turbo of oil. Neither of these items occurred.

I knew this was going to turn out bad.

So I pull the turbo and send it in.

In the mean time I spend another $450.00 for a new stock turbo (from a different seller) just so I can have my car to drive.

After another delay of 2 weeks I’m notified that the upgraded turbo failed because foreign matter contacted the turbine wheel, so it’s my fault.

Yeah… Debris magically entered my exhaust system and destroyed my turbo. For sure.

Oh yeah, and he tells me for another $400.00+ I can buy another upgraded turbo at cost.

F*&k that. He’s not getting any more of my money.

Anyway, I can’t prove I received a defective turbo any more than they can prove I damaged it. People can say/claim whatever they choose. That’s not the point of this post.

The point of this post is to let everyone know that if you have a problem with Vermont Tuning LLC, it will be deemed your fault and you will be sh*t out of luck and out whatever money you paid.

Also, the tuning services I received were questionable. My car never ran quite right with Brian’s tuning. I tried every conceivable setting on the water meth controller and after many tune updates the car misses at wide open throttle. This is a brand new car with less than 500 miles on it at the time & I am a patient & competent mechanic. Brian still offers to help me tune the car, but for what? Without the upgraded turbo, I don’t need/want his tune.

I want the upgraded turbo I paid for, or a refund.

So at this point for my $2,004.00 all I have is massive aggravation & a water methanol kit.

I’m sure this guy is liked in the community. But I feel screwed by Vermont Tuning LLC. Your experience may vary.

 

[SONIC1.4]

From the sounds of it that's not the best customer service. He should at least send you a new turbo.

 

[sx sonic]

Well sh!t man that sucks.

 

[Sonic]

This one negative customer review will cost them thousands of dollars in future business. I hope he reads this or hears about and and comes on here and responds. It will be interesting to see what he has to say. Someone email him with a link to this thread.

 

[Ms.DannyStone]

Contact your card issuer you used and dispute it and give them the photos and info you have and say you returned it and get your money back

 

[Sonic]

Yeah, absolutely dispute the charges. They will chargeback Vtuner and he will be the one screwed, not you.

 

[Gsrdude]

Foreign object damaged the turbine wheel huh.

Did you drop a screw in on reassembly?
Perhaps a bolt made its way up your exhaust from the rear of the car?
Maybe there were marbles in your engine that made it out the exhaust ports?

:blankface:

128 miles and that is really the response you got?


"We start with a stock Garrett MZGT1446MZGL turbo and then we machine the compressor housing to accept our proprietary compressor wheel upgrade, then clip the turbine wheel to reduce back pressure. A direct bolt-on solution that allows us to increase the maximum boost and airflow over the stock turbo by over 15%."

I'm going with improper turbo reassembly.
Do you have pics where the turbine wheel ground itself into the housing?

 

[Swordsmith]

I am not contradicting this report, I just want to say that I also got a modified turbo and tune (didn't get the meth injection) from VTuners and have had no problems at all.

To contradict this story I would have had to also have mine break down, and gotten a free replacement or something; that didn't happen to me, since mine worked perfectly I have no idea what would have happened if there had been a problem.

I -have- held onto my original turbo; Brian took a $400 CORE which he says he will return to me when I send him my turbo, but I wanted to give it a few thousand miles on the modded one before letting go of that "safety backup" option.

I also want to say that Brian has been very responsive, with very little turnaround time, on adjusting the tune; I think I did a total of 24 logs and something like 12 updates (some of the logs were to show before and after conditions, to show E85 vs E10 and E47 and so forth, with no tune adjust needed); most updates happened within 24 hours, some cases I did more than one back-and-forth in a day.

I'm pleased. But maybe I was just lucky.

 

[Sonic]

Fair enough. Still in for the reply from him about this situation. Maybe something can be worked out.

 

[NewZJ]

If there was an object that fell into the turbo inlet during installation unnoticed, how far would the car drive before the turbo broke?

Wouldn't there be distinctive signs that a foreign object came into contact with the turbine through sound or operation?

Would the area of destruction be so altered by the failure that any evidence of foreign objects be unnoticeable?

 

[cndctrdj]

Sorry for your bad news. So many questions. So many things I would love to know

 

[Sonic]

The member "VTuner" was reading the thread. Awaiting response.

 

[VTuner]

I am of course very concerned when a customer reports that they have had a problem with any product we sell or services we provide. Our Sonic/Cruze turbo upgrade comes with a 1-year warranty against material/workmanship defects directly through an authorized Garrett service center that performs the upgrades for these turbos. We shipped the turbo back to the service center for inspection before any warranty decision was made. In the case of Anthony's turbo they said the damage was caused by an impact with a foreign object and the warranty claim was denied. I have used this same service center for the last five years and have no reason to doubt their expertise - they have been servicing turbochargers for 35 years.

While I stand behind all of the products I sell and provide warranties, I do not warranty components against accidental damage. I have offered to provide another turbo upgrade at cost, which is still stands if the customer wishes to move forward with it.

I have attached a couple of photos of the damaged turbine wheel in case you guys are curious what it looks like (a turbine from a new Sonic turbo is pictured on the right side for reference). I asked the turbo shop manager specifically if this kind of damage could have been caused just by the shaft breaking and the turbine free wheeling in the turbine housing and was told no. A severe foreign object impact will throw the balance off and then the turbo basically shakes itself to death if it survives the initial impact.

Cheers

 

[Scot]

So, having seen how far removed the turbine is from any "severe foreign object impact" risk - or at least when I was building my downpipe - what kind of thing has to happen to make this end result?

If someone has 35 years in the business, seems like they would have plenty of opportunities to do turbo post-mortems.

I'm not pointing any fingers here, and I understand Brian relies on his supplier to diagnose the failure before reporting back to the customer. I can't help think that this method is entirely without suspicion:

"We start with a stock Garrett MZGT1446MZGL turbo and then we machine the compressor housing to accept our proprietary compressor wheel upgrade, then clip the turbine wheel to reduce back pressure. A direct bolt-on solution that allows us to increase the maximum boost and airflow over the stock turbo by over 15%."

Could someone possibly overlooked a proper balance on the clipped assembly and/or machined the housing wrong? If the failure was caused by an imbalance, couldn't improper clipping/machining also cause a destructive imbalance?

While offering to redo the upgrade at cost is nice, the OP is still out - and would need to provide - an entirely different & functional turbo.

Definitely no winner here.

 

[Preloader]

I'm hesitant to engage in this thread, as I don't really want to pick a side.

But I will say that I'm not surprised that the authorized Garrett service center is quick to dismiss that they are not liable. I've dealt with some of the bigger vendors, and it seems that their default mode is to start by not making any concessions. If they piss off 1 out of a 1,000 customers, their business is not threatened.

That doesn't mean this claim should just end there, though. The proverbial sh¡t rolls downhill. Next in line is the sub-vendor's chance to make it right with the client, and decide whether to pursue the service center for reimbursement, or to start looking for another provider.

Again, I don't want to take sides, and I understand why VTuner is hesitant to take a loss, but without proof of installer error (which has not been shown), I can't understand a company telling a customer: "sorry about your luck".

 

[Sonic]

The end result of this is that yeah, VTuner can say that it was the service center that denied the warranty claim so there's nothing that will be done about it. But VTuner needs to realize that this situation will ultimately cost THEM, and not the service center money. The service center has nothing at stake here, VTuner does. There are times when you take care of a customer to invest in your reputation even if it might mean a little money off the bottom line.

 

[Sonic]

Added a poll. This should be interesting.

 

[ranvette]

Its very clear to see the damage.I have been a master chevy tech for 30 years.And i am also sure if Brian (Vtuner) Did the install himself for a customer he would be eating this one.Just like i would.Plain and simple most likely a nut of small bolt hit that baby.A tuff break for the owner but he should also be happy to get another turbo for cost.And Garret takes back most all there Turbos to revue there product.And of course they do get back charged by GM on warranty claims.

 

[Swordsmith]

If the failure was caused by an imbalance, couldn't improper clipping/machining also cause a destructive imbalance?

Garrets is saying that the failure was caused by a foreign object impact, not by imbalance, although they are also saying that once damaged the resulting imbalance would then proceed to further destroy the turbo if not already done for. But they aren't saying that the failure was caused by an imbalance.

 

[Sonic_Boost]

Sooo what would happen in this case and it were just a stock turbo on a stock car? How would it be anything other than faulty/defective turbo? Or it not being assembled correctly? Would gm uphold the warranty and replace it? Would they try and tell you that you screwed it up something magically some how like they did with OP? Or would they say pound sand?

Just trying to figure that out from the same scenerio.