Seafoam

[mja]

Hi Sonic community,

After answering a thread last week about seafoam, I became curious about what's in it. So I did some testing.

Update on this topic: I went over these spectra with a friend who works with fluorocarbons and hydrocarbons more than I and got some advice... learned a few things in the process, ran a few more tests, and found that it is only long chain hydrocarbons, branched or otherwise. These compounds are not saturated with halogens (i.e. no chlorine). The issue of poisoning the cats (refer to later post) should be less than was expected before, and this material is relatively safe to use from an environmental perspective. As far as engine seals - plastics/rubbers - should be completely safe and fine. However, just like any oil through the exhaust that does not fully combust - an oil film on the catalytic converter will render the cats useless at converting gasoline/air combustion products into less harmful emissions if used in high enough quantities, and oil on the oxygen sensors should cause the fuel trims to read incorrectly until the oil is completely burnt off. This is why the car may throw a code after using the product. Depending on how often this product is used, the concentration, and the health of the O2 sensors/cats, I would say this product does have the potential to decrease the life of (especially old/unhealthy) O2 sensors and cat's.

I've included some information for those who are more interested about specific compounds/mixtures in seafoam:
http://chem.sis.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/64742-49-0
http://chem.sis.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/64742-47-8
http://chem.sis.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/64742-54-7
http://chem.sis.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/67-63-0

The equipment:

Gas chromatography - Mass spec/FID:

600MHz NMR:

A disclaimer to Seafoam - These statements about the product are only my opinion, not that of my place of work, or this forum/site - www.sonicownersforum.com, and are not meant to slander any company or it's product.

 

[mja]

C13 NMR:

H1 NMR:

GCMS:

(1st run - 2nd and major product clogs the detector at this concentration)

(after a flush with isopropanol - isopropanol the small peak at left, major product still stuck on the column, this is a silicon-OH based GC column)

If you deal with these types of graphs often, then please chime in - the [M+2] ion peaks are over 100% abundance. This could mean the molecule is saturated with chlorine, or possibly this was an alkene that has been brominated with HBR, so single bromination on the carbon chains (but the M+2 peaks don't look like bromine). There are many +12 MW peaks, meaning this is a hydrocarbon. I don't imagine this product is a hexahalogenated benzene, but I guess it's possible. It looks like it is a chlorinated straight chain hydrocarbon, but I can't be too sure (a cyclic hydrocarbon would be much too expensive). The major product is sticking on my GCMS column, so I'd guess it's highly chlorinated or brominated. I was wondering about the use of isopropanol as a solvent in seafoam if it was only a normal hydrocarbon. But now this makes sense, an alcohol will be more miscible with a halogenated product. I'll test a longer chlorinated and brominated chain next week to compare with these results. The light naptha you can't see on the proton NMR, because it's a very small component of the initial mixture.

Edit/update for the chemists out there: The [M+2] peaks I thought were halogen isotope patterns were +2 MW peaks from carbon to a methylene ion. They look very similar :/

 

[Swordsmith]

While I would be concerned about your results vis a vis the fuel delivery system, I wonder whether any of this fluid ever reaches the catalytic converter; shouldn't you be looking at the combustion products rather than the actual seafoam, by the time you get to the cat?

 

[mja]

While I would be concerned about your results vis a vis the fuel delivery system, I wonder whether any of this fluid ever reaches the catalytic converter; shouldn't you be looking at the combustion products rather than the actual seafoam, by the time you get to the cat?

Good question Swordsmith. It's a question I can give some insight to since organometallic catalysis is my area of work, however not the solid state. The solid state catalysts in the cats are designed to reduce NO ligands, as in oxidation/reduction, into nitrogen and oxygen gas. Carbon monoxide is oxidized to carbon dioxide, and small hydrocarbons should be oxidized to CO2/H2O. This solid surface is highly polar and the catalysts (metals) can be 'killed' with other highly polar chemicals, think how two strong magnets can come together and block the face of the first magnet, rendering it useless. Chronic use of polar chemicals, like some additive in gasoline, would kill the cats quicker. What is happening in other terms is the precious metals in the cat, lets say platinum or rhodium, has their catalytic coordination sites/areas blocked off by some polar molecule that is attracted to the metal. The precious metal then can't do it's job anymore, because it is blocked. The most classic example is lead in gasoline.

An interesting bit of info - apart from lead causing irreperable harm to folks breathing it in from pollution, and better refinement processes in the 60s/70s that allowed higher octane gasoline, one of the biggest reason we don't have leaded gasoline is catalytic converters. The highly polar lead binds to the metal catalysts and poisonins/ruins the cats. It probably wouldn't take too many tanks of leaded gasoline to kill a modern cars cats. What you are dealing with in seafoam, is a product that was developed long before EPA mandated any type of clean air acts and the phase out of leaded gas, and making catalytic converters ubiquitous on cars.

The fact that the product smokes out the exhaust shows the hydrocarbon (presumably halogenated...but I don't want to accuse some company of using chlorocarbons shooting into the atmosphere unless I know with 100% certainty, there's a chance it could also be a heavier type of maybe oxygenated hydrocarbon) isn't being fully combusted, or at least the combustion products are not broken down to a form that the catalysts can deal with.

Without a doubt this product is very capable of hydrogen bonding to a great degree, and sticks on my GC column. So much so that it's polarity is a concern for me even testing the compunds further, btw my gcms column and detector temperature run at about 300 degrees celsius with a similar polar phase (although silica based) as a catalytic converter would have. A cat would run about 300-550 deg celsius depending on cold or hot starting, and a number of other factors. In my opinion this would also 'stick' on the precious metal portions of the cat, and would take some time to be oxidized and fully combusted off of this surface.

How much this would decrease the life of the catalysts, and how much of this product would stick to the metal phase I couldn't guess. But I can say that it would decrease the life of the cat if used often, especially in it's most common use which is on cold startup where the cats are not hot.

I don't really want to make any more accusations without following up on this, and it's disconcerting to make assumptions on my part without testing standards. I'll get to that at some point, hopefully sooner than later. If I can get some good standards and test this stuff on the flame ionization detector I can say with much greater accuracy how harmful it would be to cats.

Update: Turns out the compounds in seafoam are not nearly as 'polar' as I thought, meaning they won't 'poison' the catalyst. However they still will adhere to the catalyst surface and decrease the effectiveness of the catalyst, as seen on my GCMS column, until they are completely evaporated (not combusted) away. How quickly this occurs is anyone's guess, and any further damage to oil sticking in the cat's is not something I could measure with the tools I have available.

 

[mja]

The first post in the thread has been updated with the correct info after looking into this further. For interest and clarity, here is my original post:

"I'll post the spectra and some thoughts of what I found on the next post. But here's my general thoughts - Seafoam consists of one major portion, and a few solvents. To the best of my knowledge the major portion seems to be a halogenated hydrocarbon, 5-8 carbons in length. Here's the catch - I could be way off, since I just did this real quick and I don't have too much time to dedicate to this. The solvents - about 10-30% ish component ratios is my guess, are isopropanol and what looks like a mix of low molecular weight aromatic naptha.

What it means: if this is what I think it is, it's just a solvent that would be extremely good at dissolving carbon buildup, with the side effect of completely destroying plastics/rubbers/solid phase catalysts on catalytic converters. In my opinion, if your vehicle/motor has a carburetor and no cats, go for it. I wouldn't let this stuff touch a more modern engine with expensive sensors and cats."

 

[Brad Bruggeman]

What about using it in the crankcase?would that be safe?