Will a 2013 Sonic timing belt last for 141,000 miles?

[sonic2013hedgehog]

UPDATE! The timing belt actually *was* replaced at 110,000 miles. It was done at the dealer but didn't appear in the Carfax for some reason. That's why when I had a mechanic look at it the other day, he said the belt was "original".

I bought a 2013 Chevy Sonic LT manual transmission from a used car dealership with 131,000 miles back in 2020. It's now almost at 142,000 miles. I've always assumed that the timing belt had been replaced by the previous owner, but I just re-checked the Carfax and it doesn't have a record for timing belt replacement. The last maintenance record with the dealer before it was sold was at 93k miles, when the evaporative solenoid was replaced -- the timing belt is recommended to be replaced at 97,500 miles.

FWIW, when I bought the car, the mechanic who checked it told me to have the used car dealer check the "pulleys" for this noise in the engine. I told the dealer to fix the problem, and his mechanics ended up replacing the alternator, which fixed the noise problem.

The vehicle is now turning 10 years old, so if the timing belt hasn't been replaced, I have to have it replaced ASAP. But is it even possible for the original timing belt to last this long? For all I know, the original owner might have had it replaced at a non-Carfax affiliated shop.

 

[Dingleberry69]

Let’s just say this, the timing belt will outlast the bearings in the tensioner and idler pulleys. In other words those bearings might seize up causing all the problems to the engine well before the belt itself wears out.
Best to get the pulleys changed out, but while you’re in there, replace the belt and water pump as well. (Can get all as a full replacement kit, my dealership service department pointed me to Gates, as that’s what they use at the dealership)

changed mine at 156k Kms, and the idler/tensioner bearings were already close to seizing up (not freely rotating, and a bit gritty feeling) and the water pump was the same way, tons of end play, and the bearings were quite ratchety in feel as well. Seeing I had the drive belt off as well, replaced that and it’s tensioner for new as well, as par for the course. That tensioner was okay, but with the age of it, was getting weak in the spring tension department.

yes it’s a lot of work, even as a diy project, but it’s doable. But yup if going in there, I can say with clear conscience that if going in there, just replace the works, will prevent the need to go back in there again, and then again, after doing mine DIY, I must say, that doing it all once, is far more than enough for me. If I was to do it again, in hind sight, I would just lift the whole engine/transaxle assembly out and do the clutch as well, as a while you’re in there thing.

 

[sonic2013hedgehog]

Let’s just say this, the timing belt will outlast the bearings in the tensioner and idler pulleys. In other words those bearings might seize up causing all the problems to the engine well before the belt itself wears out.
Best to get the pulleys changed out, but while you’re in there, replace the belt and water pump as well. (Can get all as a full replacement kit, my dealership service department pointed me to Gates, as that’s what they use at the dealership)

changed mine at 156k Kms, and the idler/tensioner bearings were already close to seizing up (not freely rotating, and a bit gritty feeling) and the water pump was the same way, tons of end play, and the bearings were quite ratchety in feel as well. Seeing I had the drive belt off as well, replaced that and it’s tensioner for new as well, as par for the course. That tensioner was okay, but with the age of it, was getting weak in the spring tension department.

yes it’s a lot of work, even as a diy project, but it’s doable. But yup if going in there, I can say with clear conscience that if going in there, just replace the works, will prevent the need to go back in there again, and then again, after doing mine DIY, I must say, that doing it all once, is far more than enough for me. If I was to do it again, in hind sight, I would just lift the whole engine/transaxle assembly out and do the clutch as well, as a while you’re in there thing.

I'm not good with cars so I'll have to have someone do it for me, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to have it done than just to sell the car and buy another. I heard timing belt replacement can be expensive. Unfortunately cars have gotten more expensive so while my car may have appreciated in value, it'd be hard for me to buy something better at a good price.

Are there symptoms of the pulleys and tensioners going out?

 

[Dingleberry69]

Well I did mine as a weekend job, just paced myself out, not sure what a shade tree or pro mechanic would charge. But some prices in CAD for the parts alone, all genuine + gates for the timing set. $560 for the timing belt, tensioner,idler, water pump and fastener set, $100 for serpentine belt, $275 for the serpentine belt tensioner.
Then I determined a few more things needed to be done, valve cover gasket $95, and passenger side engine mount $170. Then thermostat and housing $370 and of course all these are in Canadian Dollhairs, so conversion rates to your local currency, or parts may even be cheaper in the US. God knows.

All parts were GM genuine, could save with aftermarket, but with the shoddy quality of aftermarket non performance parts these days, I would steer clear, especially on critical components.

 

[Dingleberry69]

I'm not good with cars so I'll have to have someone do it for me, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to have it done than just to sell the car and buy another. I heard timing belt replacement can be expensive. Unfortunately cars have gotten more expensive so while my car may have appreciated in value, it'd be hard for me to buy something better at a good price.

Are there symptoms of the pulleys and tensioners going out?

There are symptoms, but when they show up, it may be way too late. Might be noise, or they would lock up quietly, making the noise of engine death. Interference engines they are, if the timing becomes instantly off, then serious engine damage will occur (most likely replace engine serious as I could imagine the term “beyond economical repair” would be the one to coin in this circumstance)

 

[sonic2013hedgehog]

Got it. Tough decisions to make in the next few days. I was kinda hoping at 140,000 miles, the timing belt *must* have been replaced but I guess it's actually possible it was not. Thanks for the info, dingleberry!

 

[Dingleberry69]

Well according to the 2012 sonic manual, 1.8l L4 engine, replace timing belt comes at 156,000km/97,500 miles. Safest bet, dare I say is not to assume it was done, unless it was provided in documentation when you got the vehicle, that it was a deferred maintenance item. Sorry to say, but a timing belt is much cheaper than a full engine re and re. Unfortunately the original owner left you with a ticking time bomb, when it will go, nobody will know, but I’m certain you don’t want to be the one it will go off on . If you do turn around and sell it, please tell the potential buyer that they will have to change that ASAP. Would also most likely garner a lower resell price, as it might be more challenging to move.

 

[sonic2013hedgehog]

Definitely will tell the next buyer, though I probably will just sell/trade it in at the dealership so they can fix what has to be fixed before selling

 

[Dingleberry69]

Amazing, thanks for being a good sport bout the situation. I know it really sucks if it will have to come to that though. I do wish you good luck, and hopefully everything works out for you

 

[JTee2017]

Definitely will tell the next buyer, though I probably will just sell/trade it in at the dealership so they can fix what has to be fixed before selling

The sad reality is that if you trade it in to a dealer or reseller used car lot. . . .. they are NOT likely to spend the time and money to replace the timing belt nor inform a potential buyer that it needs to be done before driving it much.
Or the engine will be blown and that customer will be out his hard earned money and not car or money to buy another one. . .. :-(

 

[Dingleberry69]

The sad reality is that if you trade it in to a dealer or reseller used car lot. . . .. they are NOT likely to spend the time and money to replace the timing belt nor inform a potential buyer that it needs to be done before driving it much.
Or the engine will be blown and that customer will be out his hard earned money and not car or money to buy another one. . .. :-(

Tragically that is most likely an accurate assumption. I remember back in the day, I tried to trade in a vehicle to the dealership, and they even refused to take it into inventory as a trade cause it was too far gone. Even used car dealerships would refuse. Nowadays, everyone’s fighting for inventory, and economy vehicles these days are quick flips even for private sale, but buyers are also quite picky, as they are more likely to be quite well informed about the vehicle they are going to spend their hard earned debt on. They will nitpick, and try to get the lowest price possible on their purchase. If you decide to sell, just be warned it is a buyers market, and that you will have to be flexible on your asking price. I know people that have spent money on repairing their vehicles so they can get to dollar for private sale, and the strategy worked for them.

 

[thebigslide]

I bought a 2013 Chevy Sonic LT manual transmission from a used car dealership with 131,000 miles back in 2020. It's now almost at 142,000 miles. I've always assumed that the timing belt had been replaced by the previous owner, but I just re-checked the Carfax and it doesn't have a record for timing belt replacement. The last maintenance record with the dealer before it was sold was at 93k miles, when the evaporative solenoid was replaced -- the timing belt is recommended to be replaced at 97,500 miles.

FWIW, when I bought the car, the mechanic who checked it told me to have the used car dealer check the "pulleys" for this noise in the engine. I told the dealer to fix the problem, and his mechanics ended up replacing the alternator, which fixed the noise problem.

The vehicle is now turning 10 years old, so if the timing belt hasn't been replaced, I have to have it replaced ASAP. But is it even possible for the original timing belt to last this long? For all I know, the original owner might have had it replaced at a non-Carfax affiliated shop.

Hi,

I just changed mine at 60k so I have a bit of insight. First of all, the factory belt was already stretched by at least a full cog. I would expect a lot of belt stretch by 150k and it would probably be enough to retard the cam timing and trip a code. But also, this stretch will be noticeable in the alignment of the cam gear - which you can use to check if the belt is old without taking off anything other than the valve cover, which is like a 15 minute job and requires only one tool - an E10 socket. Everything else clips together.

* The wire harness trays slide up and off
* The PCV can remain attached.
* The spark plug/coil pack cover pops off.
* The throttle body plug as a safety tab on the release lever that has to slide out a little before you can push on the release lever.
* To disconnect the coil pack, there's also a little tab on the connector where the push-to-release lever is. It slides out to the right
* Don't forget to push these tabs back in when you reconnect those things later.
* To unplug the coil pack you want to wiggle it out gently with the release lever pushed down. It will be tight because there's a rubber dealy to keep dust out. Just wiggle a lot and it will come.

There are two E10 bolts holding down the coil pack. These come right out - don't lose them. Wiggle front to back on the coil pack while pulling up over each plug and it will lift right off.

Remove the upper timing belt cover on the left side of the head. There are two E10 bolts holding it to the head and they come out - a magnet is handy if you think you may drop them. Getting them back from under the engine would be difficult. A good trick is to tape a magnet under the hole while you are removing or reinstalling them - especially if you're like me and drop half the bolts you handle.

Loosen all the other E10 bolts holding down the valve cover - these ones don't come out all the way, they stay in the cover.

On the left side of the valve cover there's some thicker plastic you can pry on to pop the cover off. Don't stick anything between the valve cover and the head - you'll scratch the head or damage the gasket. There are lots of spots to push/pry on and it doesn't take much force to pop the cover off.

You should be able to reuse the gasket if you're gentle, but you might want to grab a spare just in case. There is no magic to installing a new one - they are held in place by a groove on the cover and there's nothing to line up or anything like that - anyone can do it. If the old one didn't come off easily or tore easily, it was time for a replacement anyway.

With the valve cover off, you can see the camshafts. There are two flats on the right sides of the camshafts that are used to align them where the engine is being built.

Repeatedly blip the starter to turn the engine over until one of them is at the top. Don't worry, it won't start because there's no coil pack. If it has to go around more than one full circle, stop when you're close and take 15, have a beer, watch some youtube, whatever. This is to let the pressure in the #1 cylinder bleed off or the engine will pass the spot due to compression of the #1 cylinder. Your engine is now at #1 top dead center. If you miss it by a little, no big deal. Read on.

Place a straight edge across the flats on the camshafts. If they both line up perfectly, you have a newer timing belt. If they slope down and out but touch the straightedge in the middle, your belt is old and stretched.

*If you missed Top Dead Center due to some pressure in the hole, you can still use your straight edge to check the cam alignment. Place one end of the straightedge on the flat or get a buddy to, while looking down along the engine from the side. Find or make a spot of the wall at the other end of the straightedge. Now do the same for the other camshaft. Are the two spots at the same height? If so the cams are parallel. Gotta love triangles. If the two spots are not even close to the same height, your belt is stretched.

 

[sonic2013hedgehog]

Tragically that is most likely an accurate assumption. I remember back in the day, I tried to trade in a vehicle to the dealership, and they even refused to take it into inventory as a trade cause it was too far gone. Even used car dealerships would refuse. Nowadays, everyone’s fighting for inventory, and economy vehicles these days are quick flips even for private sale, but buyers are also quite picky, as they are more likely to be quite well informed about the vehicle they are going to spend their hard earned debt on. They will nitpick, and try to get the lowest price possible on their purchase. If you decide to sell, just be warned it is a buyers market, and that you will have to be flexible on your asking price. I know people that have spent money on repairing their vehicles so they can get to dollar for private sale, and the strategy worked for them.

this is interesting. Where I live, cars are in short supply and prices are sky-high. I'm shopping for a replacement car and it's been very, very hard even if the Sonic's trade-in value is quite high.

Hi,

I just changed mine at 60k so I have a bit of insight. First of all, the factory belt was already stretched by at least a full cog. I would expect a lot of belt stretch by 150k and it would probably be enough to retard the cam timing and trip a code. But also, this stretch will be noticeable in the alignment of the cam gear - which you can use to check if the belt is old without taking off anything other than the valve cover, which is like a 15 minute job and requires only one tool - an E10 socket. Everything else clips together.

* The wire harness trays slide up and off
* The PCV can remain attached.
* The spark plug/coil pack cover pops off.
* The throttle body plug as a safety tab on the release lever that has to slide out a little before you can push on the release lever.
* To disconnect the coil pack, there's also a little tab on the connector where the push-to-release lever is. It slides out to the right
* Don't forget to push these tabs back in when you reconnect those things later.
* To unplug the coil pack you want to wiggle it out gently with the release lever pushed down. It will be tight because there's a rubber dealy to keep dust out. Just wiggle a lot and it will come.

There are two E10 bolts holding down the coil pack. These come right out - don't lose them. Wiggle front to back on the coil pack while pulling up over each plug and it will lift right off.

Remove the upper timing belt cover on the left side of the head. There are two E10 bolts holding it to the head and they come out - a magnet is handy if you think you may drop them. Getting them back from under the engine would be difficult. A good trick is to tape a magnet under the hole while you are removing or reinstalling them - especially if you're like me and drop half the bolts you handle.

Loosen all the other E10 bolts holding down the valve cover - these ones don't come out all the way, they stay in the cover.

On the left side of the valve cover there's some thicker plastic you can pry on to pop the cover off. Don't stick anything between the valve cover and the head - you'll scratch the head or damage the gasket. There are lots of spots to push/pry on and it doesn't take much force to pop the cover off.

You should be able to reuse the gasket if you're gentle, but you might want to grab a spare just in case. There is no magic to installing a new one - they are held in place by a groove on the cover and there's nothing to line up or anything like that - anyone can do it. If the old one didn't come off easily or tore easily, it was time for a replacement anyway.

With the valve cover off, you can see the camshafts. There are two flats on the right sides of the camshafts that are used to align them where the engine is being built.

Repeatedly blip the starter to turn the engine over until one of them is at the top. Don't worry, it won't start because there's no coil pack. If it has to go around more than one full circle, stop when you're close and take 15, have a beer, watch some youtube, whatever. This is to let the pressure in the #1 cylinder bleed off or the engine will pass the spot due to compression of the #1 cylinder. Your engine is now at #1 top dead center. If you miss it by a little, no big deal. Read on.

Place a straight edge across the flats on the camshafts. If they both line up perfectly, you have a newer timing belt. If they slope down and out but touch the straightedge in the middle, your belt is old and stretched.

*If you missed Top Dead Center due to some pressure in the hole, you can still use your straight edge to check the cam alignment. Place one end of the straightedge on the flat or get a buddy to, while looking down along the engine from the side. Find or make a spot of the wall at the other end of the straightedge. Now do the same for the other camshaft. Are the two spots at the same height? If so the cams are parallel. Gotta love triangles. If the two spots are not even close to the same height, your belt is stretched.

I'm sorry I am no good with cars so I really don't understand, but I really appreciate it! I may discuss this with my mechanic.