AutoX classes

[Watchdoc]

I have read the 2012 SCCA rule proposals and can't find any listing for Sonic classes. The only mention seems to be B spec race cars.


There is a mention of allowing other B spec cars (Fit, Yaris, Mazda 2) in ST street touring. While there will be lots of other cars in this class, the Mini pretty much rules the class. Don't be discouraged though as a long course may favor the more powerful Sonic.

Anyway, i'm guess H STOCK and ST but I'd like to know officially.

 

[theenico]

Back in November I submitted a request to have the Sonic 1.4T classed in H stock. According to the SCCA website, my letter is still waiting to be reviewed by the Solo Events Board.

 

[Watchdoc]

Back in November I submitted a request to have the Sonic 1.4T classed in H stock. According to the SCCA website, my letter is still waiting to be reviewed by the Solo Events Board.

My current race car is a 02 Subaru 2.5 RS. The suspension and lightening mods place it in SM where is obviously is not competitive.

I have a set of 04 Sti wheels with like new Star Specs in 225/45/17. The wheels alone are worth about $800.

Anyway, my idea is to sell the autox/hpde parts I have for my subaru and use it exclusively for rallyx (where it kicks ass). I could then use the proceeds to setup the Sonic for either HS or ST. We also have a PAX adjusted street tire class.

Keep in the mind the Sonic will have to remain a daily driver commuter and I drive roughly 400 miles a week.

With that info in hand, You seem very knowledgable on the subject so tell me what you think of the Sonic in HS or ST?

 

[theenico]

My current race car is a 02 Subaru 2.5 RS. The suspension and lightening mods place it in SM where is obviously is not competitive.

2.5 RS huh. Back in my fabrication days, I built the original coilovers that Steve used to develop the ZZYZX coilovers. We ran them on his 2.5 RS. I also built the rollcage for that car.

Back to the topic at hand. I plan on running in H-stock (if that's where it ends up). I too am using the Sonic as my daily and don't want to go crazy with the mods that classes like ST allow. My list for stock is:

- Front or rear anti-sway bar (per the rules you can only change one).
- Hoosier A6 or the new Goodyear RS AC on the stock 15X6 wheels, or some custom Kodiaks (budget permitting of course).
- Custom valved, single adjustable, Konis.
- Stainless braided brake lines (I may have to make my own if the aftermarket doesn't get on this soon).
- Hawk HP+ brake pads for the front.

 

[keto06]

I dont know if you guys do this too, but we have Street Tire Stock classes for people who dont wanna compete in STS or equivalent.

 

[theenico]

I dont know if you guys do this too, but we have Street Tire Stock classes for people who dont wanna compete in STS or equivalent.

That's pretty common among the regions. It definitely helps attract and keep new members. It would be a huge turn off if someone had to buy race rubber to be locally competitive. Back in the mid '90s when I first started, my local region ran one catch all street tire class that I ran in for the first couple of seasons. It was fun beating Corvettes, Bimmers, Porsches, and other high dollar/high power vehicles in my daily beater.

At this point, however, I plan on doing some SCCA Solo National Tour events and going to Nationals in the fall. No street tire classes at these events.

 

[Watchdoc]

2.5 RS huh. Back in my fabrication days, I built the original coilovers that Steve used to develop the ZZYZX coilovers. We ran them on his 2.5 RS. I also built the rollcage for that car.

Back to the topic at hand. I plan on running in H-stock (if that's where it ends up). I too am using the Sonic as my daily and don't want to go crazy with the mods that classes like ST allow. My list for stock is:

- Front or rear anti-sway bar (per the rules you can only change one).
- Hoosier A6 or the new Goodyear RS AC on the stock 15X6 wheels, or some custom Kodiaks (budget permitting of course).
- Custom valved, single adjustable, Konis.
- Stainless braided brake lines (I may have to make my own if the aftermarket doesn't get on this soon).
- Hawk HP+ brake pads for the front.

I assume you mean the stock LT aluminum wheels. I find it interesting the 15x6 steel wheels are actually lighter than the 15x6 alloys per your other post. Also, they sell for $45 a piece on gmpartsdirect.

GMpartsdirect also sells the factory 16x6.5 Cruze steel wheel for $39 a piece. It looks fairly light from the picture but they don't list a weight. The part # should be 13259234 but someone might wanna check behind me on that.

What's the downside of running steel wheels with hoosiers?

 

[theenico]

Yep. I was referring to the LT aluminum wheels.

That is the right P/N for the Cruze steel wheels. My data shows them at 8.155Kg/17.98lb.

Steel wheels tend to have a little flex which is generally imperceptible to the driver. There should be no issues using them for Auto-X.

 

[Watchdoc]

Those steel wheels with 225/50/16's seem like a good choice. Now I'm debating running HS with slicks or PAX based HS in our local street tire class.

How do u think the Koni single adjustables will hold up for daily driving? I assume those are inserts and u have to sacrifice your stock struts?

Have u looked at how much negative camber is available up front?

 

[theenico]

Those steel wheels with 225/50/16's seem like a good choice. Now I'm debating running HS with slicks or PAX based HS in our local street tire class.

How do u think the Koni single adjustables will hold up for daily driving? I assume those are inserts and u have to sacrifice your stock struts?

Have u looked at how much negative camber is available up front?

The following response is based around my going whole hog to try and be competitive at the national level. I want the driver (me) to be the only reason I'm not competitive.

I also want to be clear about the wheel rule for the stock classes. From section 13.4 (starting on page 74) of the National Solo rules: Any type wheel may be used provided it complies with the following: it is the same width and diameter as standard, and as installed (including wheel spacers if applicable) it does not have an offset more than +/- 0.25 inch from a standard wheel for the car. The resultant change in
track dimensions is allowed.

Basically (and there are other rules regarding trim/equipment level), you are married to the 17X6.5 if you want to run stock nationally since you have an LTZ. This is partially why I went with the LT. At the local level, I doubt many people will care.

I was planning on just leaving the Konis on during the season and running the stock stuff for the winter. The winters are crappy up here and I want to be able to have them revalved at whim. They will be complete struts, as opposed to inserts (even if they use an insert [confusing?]) so that my stock stuff isn't cannibalized.

Camber's a good one and one I didn't address in my earlier parts list. From the factory, there is no camber adjustment, but there is a provision in the stock rules that allows for eccentric camber bolts. They are a reduced shank bolt that is cammed to allow for adjustment. You use one per side and replace just the top bolt of the two where the strut attaches to the knuckle. With these in place you should be able to get up to 2 degrees of negative camber. I do plan on keeping the aggressive alignment year round.

 

[Watchdoc]

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I was thinking you could run any wheel across the model lineup. I'm very familiar with camber bolts since subarus come with them stock. I have a couple sets of the aftermarket moog camber bolts as well.

So if I wanna run HS (or whatever class I get lumped into), I'm pretty much stuck with my stock wheels? With that in mind, I do have a very nice set of 225/45/17 Star Specs. Do you think it's pushing it too much to mount these on the stock 6.5" LTZ wheels? Then I could run the PAX adjusted HS class.

I wasn't aware Koni was going to make an off the shelf strut for the sonic. I figured inserts were the only option. Do you have part #'s?

 

[theenico]

You are stuck with the stock size wheels. Unfortunately, short of custom wheels from CCW, Kodiak, Forgeline, etc., there isn't really an inexpensive aftermarket light wheel in the 17X6.5 size.

225/45R17 are a little on the wide side, but should work fine if there's enough clearance up front on the inside from the tire to the strut housing.

There aren't off the shelf Konis for the Sonic yet. I was going to go through Koni Motorsports and have some made. The Sonic doesn't use inserts (sealed assembly), so I was going to send them some stock stuff to either copy or cannibalize. I'm also going to contact AST and see how their pricing compares to Koni's since I have to go custom anyway. I thought about Ohlins or Penskes, but they're way out of my price range. From what I've seen at the national level, Konis and ASTs are more than adequate as far as adjustable struts/shocks go.

For the first couple of local events, I'm actually going to run the car bone stock to get a feel for it (with the DOT auto-X rubber). Once I've established the baseline, I can proceed with the upgrades.

 

[laborsmith]

I do not AutoX but from what I have read coil overs are allowed and considered to be a necessity. Pedders informs me my email they should have the Sonic coil overs back in stock this week and will send the set I ordered early next week. Once their on, if someone knowledgeable about SCCA wants a test drive near where I live, I'll drive over and give them a turn.

Laborsmith

 

[theenico]

I do not AutoX but from what I have read coil overs are allowed and considered to be a necessity. Pedders informs me my email they should have the Sonic coil overs back in stock this week and will send the set I ordered early next week. Once their on, if someone knowledgeable about SCCA wants a test drive near where I live, I'll drive over and give them a turn.

Laborsmith

Based on your post, I can tell you don't autocross and I can also tell that you have no familiarity with the SCCA Solo rules. COILOVERS ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT LEGAL IN THE STOCK CLASSES. They are legal in Street Touring, Street Mod, Street Prepared, and pretty much every class beyond stock.

I don't mean to be harsh because I generally hold most of your posts (especially regarding the order process) in very high regard. Please don't make uninformed generalized posts about subjects you have only a cursory knowledge of. Please also familiarize yourself with the SCCA Solo rules before commenting on what you have "heard" is legal (the solo rules are viewable for free here: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/Documents/2011 Tech/2011 SCCA Solo Rules.pdf ).

 

[Watchdoc]

You are stuck with the stock size wheels. Unfortunately, short of custom wheels from CCW, Kodiak, Forgeline, etc., there isn't really an inexpensive aftermarket light wheel in the 17X6.5 size.

225/45R17 are a little on the wide side, but should work fine if there's enough clearance up front on the inside from the tire to the strut housing.

There aren't off the shelf Konis for the Sonic yet. I was going to go through Koni Motorsports and have some made. The Sonic doesn't use inserts (sealed assembly), so I was going to send them some stock stuff to either copy or cannibalize. I'm also going to contact AST and see how their pricing compares to Koni's since I have to go custom anyway. I thought about Ohlins or Penskes, but they're way out of my price range. From what I've seen at the national level, Konis and ASTs are more than adequate as far as adjustable struts/shocks go.

For the first couple of local events, I'm actually going to run the car bone stock to get a feel for it (with the DOT auto-X rubber). Once I've established the baseline, I can proceed with the upgrades.

There is another member on this board running 225/45/17 on Motegi MR116 17x7 40mm back space wheels. I sent him a PM to ask if he's is having any rubbing issues.

AST FTW!, if you have Ohlin, Penske, Moton, or DMS money... you prol shouldn't be autoxing a Sonic.

Personally, I'd get the Koni's or see if one of custom places like Feal would build them cheaper. Like you said, play with it and see what sort of potential the car has before you bankroll the car for nationals.

 

[Watchdoc]

Next issue, how you tried to heel and toe this thing?

The lifeless clutch actually works great at absorbing mismatched revs but the pedal spacing is way too far.

I'm debating whether to get a pedal cover for the gas pedal or physically bend the pedal arm...

suggestions?

 

[laborsmith]

Not only have I never auto crossed, I have never been a spectator at such an event. I read the rules thru the Prepared category, which seems to be the first category to allow coil overs. As a former local union chief steward, I found the sections on appeals quite interesting.

The one thing that most surprised me was the number of levels and classes. Just as the legal area of labor relations has its own "language" it appears the SCCA (at least that part that pertains to AutoX) has its own.

And I did notice that Koni Coil Overs were featured in the one page ad found near the beginning of the manual.

I do plan to continue reading the two-thirds left, but I am not certain I will ever reach the understanding to claim familiarity, but I do thank you for the link and do want to convey I found the manual to be quite interesting.

Laborsmith

Oh, and thank you for the kind words about my posts on the ordering process. The process has not changed much over the years, but the access to info has dramatically changed. I look forward to the day when it will be as normal to order as to buy off the lot. - Laborsmith

 

[theenico]

Next issue, how you tried to heel and toe this thing?

The lifeless clutch actually works great at absorbing mismatched revs but the pedal spacing is way too far.

I'm debating whether to get a pedal cover for the gas pedal or physically bend the pedal arm...

suggestions?

Heel and toe works pretty well now that I'm used to it. I just have to rotate my ankle a little more than in my VWs. I'll be leaving the pedals alone. I like to left foot brake at autocrosses, so a little extra space is welcome.

 

[Watchdoc]

So it appears the Sonic is now on the stock class exclusion list due to rollover risk. Looks like STC will be the only avenue. Booooo to the SCCA

 

[keto06]

So it appears the Sonic is now on the stock class exclusion list due to rollover risk.

Excuse me but, WTF?