Bridgestone Potenza RE760 vs S-04

[firstorbit84]

Poll: Which tires would you get?

They are both grippy and expensive. I'll be running a 225/45/17.

The 760s have 340 treadwear rating and the S-04s have a 280. The S-04s will grip better, but they will wear quicker and are about $100 more per set. Is it worth the reduced wear and extra cost for the extra grip?

I'm trying to get at least 12k miles and 6 auto-x events over a year out of them. The 760s should be able to do that and maybe a bit more if I'm easy on them. I'm not sure if the S-04s will last that long.

Anyone have any experience or opinions on either of these tires?

Bridgestone*Potenza RE760 Sport

Potenza S-04 Pole Position

Bridgestone*Potenza S-04 Pole Position

 

[2FR35H]

Poll: Which tires would you get?

They are both grippy and expensive. I'll be running a 225/45/17.

The 760s have 340 treadwear rating and the S-04s have a 280. The S-04s will grip better, but they will wear quicker and are about $100 more per set. Is it worth the reduced wear and extra cost for the extra grip?

I'm trying to get at least 12k miles and 6 auto-x events over a year out of them. The 760s should be able to do that and maybe a bit more if I'm easy on them. I'm not sure if the S-04s will last that long.

Anyone have any experience or opinions on either of these tires?

Bridgestone*Potenza RE760 Sport

Potenza S-04 Pole Position

Bridgestone*Potenza S-04 Pole Position

I have not had any experience with any of the tires you have list however it depends on your applications and goals if you want longevity its obviously best to get the one has more thread on it as opposed to one that has less thread because but in a given 12K 6 Auto X match situation I would believe both tires should be good for that but obviously if you want more focus on grip obviously get the one with more grip and if longevity is of the matter then get the other option. They should both last 12k 6 auto X matches. JMO

 

[firstorbit84]

Thanks. I'm really thinking I should just say eff it and go for the s-04

 

[Eric Smit]

the S04s are a great tire.

 

[JohnT]

They are both overpriced underperformers. Autocross will devour higher treadwear tires just as fast as it will 140 treadwear tires...and the wear will be more even on a purpose built tire. All that void area will just get shredded at an autocross. Also treadwear rating does not always correlate to increased grip.

Do not bother with either of those tires!

First Read this: https://www.facebook.com/notes/holl...d-track-day-tire-faq-utqg-140/245008598916447
Its not up to date but this is what you need to know.

Finally: Buy the Dunlop Z2. It is BY FAR the best all around everyday and autocross tire and will easily last your requirements while also being a top competitive tire. The only other tires worth autocrossing are the BFG Rival and possibly the Hankook RS3, both offer far more trade offs than the Z2.

What you would be giving up on the Z2 versus the tires you are considering is comfort and road noise...I'm assuming those are not major considerations.

If you are absolutely stuck on getting a higher treadwear tire, get the michelin pilot super sports, a faster tire than the S04 or 760 dry, faster than everything in the wet, but not nearly as fast in the dry as the Z2. They also have a $70 rebate at the moment...

 

[firstorbit84]

Thanks chiming in John! I was going to pm you about how you like your rs3's.

I will look into the z2's. Do you know which retailers usually sell them?

 

[JohnT]

Thanks chiming in John! I was going to pm you about how you like your rs3's.

I will look into the z2's. Do you know which retailers usually sell them?

RS3's are a good tire and still very fast, but they need heat to work. Being in Texas they will be great in the summer, but on colder days they are not so great. They are also one of the cheapest of the fast tires. Unfortunately they have relatively soft sidewalls and small tread blocks on the edge, so without a lot of camber or with narrow stock wheels they are probably a bad choice. When they are run on wide wheels they are much better, this is partially why I stuck to only a 215 on the stock 6.5" wheel. Nonetheless aside from cold and wet they are very fast.

Neither the Dunlop Z2 or the BFG Rival existed when I ordered tires...those two tires are changing the outlook. Grassroots Motorsports will have the first tire test out I think later this month or early next month. I've heard hints that the rivals will likely come out on top, but they only come with 7/32" tread and probably won't make as good of an everyday tire. The Dunlop Z1, despite not being as fast on paper, consistently won major events without contingency support and the Z2 is only faster. I decided to move over to STF (if the sonic ever is classed there) and will be ordering new tires on 7.5" wheels and I still can't decide between the Rival and the Z2, although I won't be using them as daily tires. If planned to drive on them everyday I would get the Z2 for sure.

The Dunlop Z2 is a tirerack exclusive. If someone is selling them outside of tirerack, they are a tirerack dealer buying them from tirerack. I recommend going through them anyway as they are a sponsor at all of the major SCCA events and their prices are usually good. You can probably find other tires elsewhere, presonally I only skip tirerack if its a huge savings, ~$100 or so.

Admittedly the Z2s are a bit more expensive, but the $60-100 difference is the cheapest and most effective thing you can do to make your car faster. $5k in suspension wouldn't make up the difference on an autocross course between an average 300 treadwear tire and something like the the Z2.

 

[firstorbit84]

Wow great info.

So would you recommend going for 215/45 or 225/45 on a 17x7 Cruze wheel?

It looks like the 225 has a higher load rating

 

[JohnT]

Wow great info.

So would you recommend going for 215/45 or 225/45 on a 17x7 Cruze wheel?

It looks like the 225 has a higher load rating

This is actually a pretty grey area, with people reporting success both over-tiring and keeping the tire closer to the wheel size. If you ever watch a video monitoring tire deflection they do move around quite a bit.

Personally with the Z2 I would go for the 225 on a 7" wheel. They do run wide (note that not all 225s are equal - check the specs on tirerack) but they have a fairly stiff sidewall. You really can't go wrong either way.

The other factor to think about here is gearing advantage. The 215 will be a bit shorter, not significantly, but it will give you a bit more acceleration. I think for small lots this is good, but for higher speed autocrosses 45-60mph you will want the taller tire.

 

[firstorbit84]

So the reason I was picking two bridgestone tires us because my local Firestone was offering $100 off if I use my line of credit. Without that discount and additional shipping charges the z2 becomes quite a bit more expensive.

I was also recommended the falken fk453 as a cheap alternative by my friend who autocrosses.

What do you think of the fk453 vs the re760?

 

[JohnT]

I'm totally biased toward being competitive at autocross, if your priorities are elsewhere then the S04 would probably be the best option you have listed if it can be had significantly cheaper than the Micheline pilot super sports.

I can't really comment specifically on the Falken fk453, I'm sure its an ok everyday tire, but not going to be competitive autocross tire. Probably significantly less expensive.

Keep in mind all of these are decent enough tires for everyday driving, but will not be remotely in the same class of grip as the tires I'm referring to.

If you are planning on any other modifications or spending any money on the car in the future, put it on tires as thats going to make the most difference.

Bridgestone does offer the new RE11A, which is in the same class of tire as I'm referring too and a bit of an unknown, but similar pricing to the Z2.

 

[firstorbit84]

I've run hoosiers before (not on the sonic) so I know what a difference a good tire makes. But I also think that street tire levels of grip are more of a sliding scale (pun intended) instead of a light switch as you seem to describe.

If it's really the case where if I don't get the top-level tire then everything else will pretty much have the same level of low grip on the track, then I might as well go buy used tires for $250/set.

 

[JohnT]

About 7-8 years ago things were more of a sliding scale as autocross was off the tire companies radar and the highest levels of competitors only ran R-comps. Then the street touring classes came to be. While competitive autocrossers are a small market, they are also the people like me who show what is the tire to buy, and tire companies have been iteratively one-upping each other for the last decade. The tire to have has often changed, but what was a winning tire 5-6 years ago, and still faster than something like a 300tw S04 would be basically dead in the water now. The new UHP street tires really are that good and the companies are really trying. Just read about the latest BFG Rival launch where they flew a bunch of well known autocross guys out to drive the tire: Vorshlag Review of the BFGoodrich "Rival" Tire - Vorshlag Motorsports Forum

Now this is about being competitive when driver and all other things are more or less on par. Tire is the most important part of car setup, driver is of course the most important thing overall. Better tires will, however, give you a wider window of grip and be more forgiving, helping you to push the limit. I still steer through things and think, "the car should not have been able to do that".

Even with the best of drivers back to back I would estimate the difference would be well over a second behind on an autocross course using a something like an S04, and what I observe is usually more than that. I see it happening locally when someone goes from running a couple seconds back to being right there competitive with me by switching to a good tire...in some cases just switching from a heat cycled and tired UHP tire that was competitive last year caused a massive jump. Tires are by far the most important factor.

If you are not dead set on competing with the top, this is all unnecessary. If you want to have fun and improve your driving skill you can have a good time on any of these tires. Although full tread tires with thin features and lots of void area do tend to chunk and wear poorly at autocross. The grippier the surface the more likely this is to occur. Tires with large tread blocks, specifically on the outside edge of the tire are best.

 

[firstorbit84]

Thanks for all the insights.

I want to be competitive but I'm really there just to have fun and improve my skills.

I'm probably just going to go with a primewell as they are only half the price of the 760s.

 

[JohnT]

Yikes primewell...thats really going the other direction.

For cheap tires I recommend the Hankook V12s, uber cheap, decent grip, comfortable. They don't last forever, but they'll easily make your requirement. And about $360-400 after rebate.

a bit outdated but:
Tire Test: Nine Affordable Summer Tires Take On the Michelin PS2 - Comparison Tests

 

[firstorbit84]

Woah, wait a minute. I thought you said if I wasn't getting the rs3 or z2 then pretty much all other street tires would be similar on the track.

 

[pacman552]

Yikes primewell...thats really going the other direction.

For cheap tires I recommend the Hankook V12s, uber cheap, decent grip, comfortable. They don't last forever, but they'll easily make your requirement. And about $360-400 after rebate.

a bit outdated but:
Tire Test: Nine Affordable Summer Tires Take On the Michelin PS2 - Comparison Tests

THIS. i have been running the v12's for a season and they are actually a good autox/DD tire, the don't wear to much just driving around and they feel good on the track. and they cost like 100$ a tire so u can buy a bunch and not worry about it as much

 

[firstorbit84]

How about Dunlop dz101?

 

[JohnT]

Woah, wait a minute. I thought you said if I wasn't getting the rs3 or z2 then pretty much all other street tires would be similar on the track.

No, you are missing my point a little. If you don't get the top tires you won't be competitive with those who are on those tires, so in that case there is no reason to spend nearly the same amount of $$ to get S04s or RE760s.

My guess is that any primewell wouldn't be any better than the OE tires, and of questionable quality. Super budget china tires are sometimes ok, but tend to be pretty sketch. You mention track but I assume you just mean autocross. I certainly would not trust my life at the track on that stuff, nor would it make sense to pay that little for tires and then pony up for a track day. Maybe they would be just ok, but why bother when are tires for the same prices that are known to be decent?

For budget tires there are good offerings from a wide variety of tire companies. I know of a few like the V12s that offer a good bang for the buck, and continental DW, but it can be difficult to sort through all the middle of the road options. There are many grades of tire out there, some are a better bargain than others, but on some level for the most part you get what you pay for...just make sure you are paying for the things you want out of a tire.

 

[firstorbit84]

yeah when I said track I meant autocross. However, when I was reading reviews of the primewell tires I actually came across quite a few lemons car racers that love them. so they do see quite a bit of track duty with those guys.

my friend who runs a chump car said that the tires he has on there now are our stock hankooks. I've done two auto-x events on the hankooks already and they really aren't too bad.

we have had national champions come to our local events and do very well on Ford Fiesta stock tires in an automatic rental car with non-defeat traction control.

I'm still getting the car set up and I will probably get springs by the end of the year and that will bump my class. I don't even intend on going to enough events to qualify for a trophy this year. If I get the primewells and don't like them, it definitely won't be the most expensive mistake I've ever made

Edit: plus I'm putting these tires on mainly so I can get on the 17" wheels for looks. If I was serious about autocrossing this car, I'd probably get a dedicated set of wheels and tires. I only asked my original question to see if anyone thought those tires were worth it for the extra performance and would hold up for the number of events and miles I wanted to get out of them.