P0017 How do I rotate exhaust cam so the slots line up and stays in that position?

[Rockabetty78]

What am I doing wrong? I replaced the entire timing kit, including both sprocket gears. This'll be the 4th time I tear it back down bc I keep getting P0017. Sure enough, the cam locking tool won't fit in the slot bc the exhaust cam is of center . I keep rotating it so it lines up, insert the locking tool, but it won't stay. When I remove the locking tool the cam pops itself back out of line. How do I get it to stay aligned?? Also, the cams don't rotate freely. They turn in "steps" or "lunges", not sure how to describe it. Anyway, the correct position for proper alignment lands in between a step. It won't stay put!

 

[LilRedLtz]

I haven't done it yet so I may not be much help. If you haven't seen this video yet, he talks about setting the cams at the 52min mark. Hope it helps.

 

[Rockabetty78]

Video???

 

[Rockabetty78]

I haven't done it yet so I may not be much help. If you haven't seen this video yet, he talks about setting the cams at the 52min mark. Hope it helps.

I'm sorry, what video??

 

[LilRedLtz]

Sorry! That might help.

 

[Jski]

Sorry! That might help.

This video is for a timing chain on a 1.4; this thread is about a 1.8L. Just to avoid any confusion.

 

[Jski]

What am I doing wrong? I replaced the entire timing kit, including both sprocket gears. This'll be the 4th time I tear it back down bc I keep getting P0017. Sure enough, the cam locking tool won't fit in the slot bc the exhaust cam is of center . I keep rotating it so it lines up, insert the locking tool, but it won't stay. When I remove the locking tool the cam pops itself back out of line. How do I get it to stay aligned?? Also, the cams don't rotate freely. They turn in "steps" or "lunges", not sure how to describe it. Anyway, the correct position for proper alignment lands in between a step. It won't stay put!

Do you have the belt on and tensioned before taking the lock tool off?
If it’s too tight to get the tool out with the belt tensioned, put a wrench on the machined flats just behind the sprockets. You can wiggle the camshaft by putting slight pressure on the wrench; not enough to turn anything but enough to relive the pressure on the tool. If your marks were correct, they will still be right on. Good luck!

 

[LilRedLtz]

Oops. Strike two. Sorry again. My wife always tells me reading is fundamental. I should have noticed 1.8 right at the top. Hope you figure it out!

 

[Z71]

If you do not use a locking tool on the cam sprockets prior to removing the old timing belt, the camshaft sprockets may move slightly out of their positions. It is necessary to use a socket or open wrench on the cam sprocket bolts to bring both sprockets to the correct timing mark position before the new belt can be installed. This usually requires a helper. On this car it is always the best bet to use a cam sprocket locking tool which would be placed in before the old belt is removed. I have changed timing belts on both DOHC 4 cylinder and DOHC V6 engines. On a V6 DOHC engine with 4 camshafts the sprockets usually do not move after removing the timing belt because the second cam is interlocked with the first one through an internal gear on each side. A 4 cylinder DOHC engines like on this Sonic 1.8 liter engine really requires a locking tool for timing belt change, also because of unusual timing marks.

 

[Jski]

What am I doing wrong? I replaced the entire timing kit, including both sprocket gears. This'll be the 4th time I tear it back down bc I keep getting P0017. Sure enough, the cam locking tool won't fit in the slot bc the exhaust cam is of center . I keep rotating it so it lines up, insert the locking tool, but it won't stay. When I remove the locking tool the cam pops itself back out of line. How do I get it to stay aligned?? Also, the cams don't rotate freely. They turn in "steps" or "lunges", not sure how to describe it. Anyway, the correct position for proper alignment lands in between a step. It won't stay put!

Did you get it timed up correctly?

 

[Rockabetty78]

I'm not sure... Here's my problem, in every video I've watched they can't stress enough that the way you know the timing is correct is when the tool you use in the back end of the cams slides into the half moons easily. I assume this is true since I've heard it over and over so that's what I've been aiming for. Anyway, my camshaft tool won't slide in at all. It's off by a hair on each cam. I used the sprocket locking tool, cam alignment tool and the flywheel locking tool. I made the adjustments and wiggled the cam alignment bar into the half moons. Installed timing belt then removed locking tool and wiggled out the camshaft tool. That's when that tiny shift in the cams happens. Like I said, just a hair on each cam. When I try to insert the camshaft tool to check alignment, it won't fit unless I wiggle the sprockets. According to the videos I've seen, this means the timing is still off.

 

[Rockabetty78]

I took a break from the timing situation to work on a leaky water pipe and replace my catalytic converter and Tearing out y after replacing my drive shift seal. I'm leaking transmission fluid again. And there's a noise coming from the front wheel. I think maybe I didn't push the cv axle in all the way. Once I'm done with that, I'll be returning to the timing nightmare.

 

[Z71]

The cams are not supposed to turn freely because the cam lobes act against the force of springs as they open the valves. The only locking tool you need for the timing belt change is the cam sprocket locking tool which fits between the sprocket teeth. First remove the spark plugs which will make engine rotation by hand much easier. Then rotate the engine by the crankshaft front bolt clockwise until the timing marks are properly aligned per the shop manual. GM dealers sell a special cam sprocket locking tool with a little window which helps to align the cam timing marks correctly. Unfortunately the tool is rather pricey so I opted for the European locking tool (about $ 25 on eBay) which is made of plastic but works quite well (but does not have the window like the OEM GM tool). Always insert the locking tool before removing the old belt. If your new belt is improperly installed, with a tooth or two off, I would make sure that the crankshaft sprocket timing mark is properly aligned at 12 o'clock and upper cam sprocket marks aligned as close as possible. Then remove the old belt. The cam sprockets will probably move slightly out of position as this point due to valve spring tension. Have a helper rotate both cam sprockets to the correct position and hold while slipping the locking tool between the cam sprocket gears. After that, recheck the timing marks on the crankshaft sprocket and readjust if necessary. Then install the new timing belt and new tensioner and idler pulleys. Remove the locking tool and rotate the engine clockwise by the crankshaft bolt at least twice and make sure all timing marks line up.

I have changed several timing belts on engines far more complicated than this Sonic engine and one step that should never be overlooked is rotation by hand of the engine by the front crankshaft bolt clockwise after the new timing belt installation at least twice to ensure that all three timing marks align correctly. I found during one timing belt change that the timing belt on my Mazda 626 V6 DOHC engine was one tooth off during such a check and I repositioned the belt correctly and never had any further issues.

 

[Rockabetty78]

The cams are not supposed to turn freely because the cam lobes act against the force of springs as they open the valves. The only locking tool you need for the timing belt change is the cam sprocket locking tool which fits between the sprocket teeth. First remove the spark plugs which will make engine rotation by hand much easier. Then rotate the engine by the crankshaft front bolt clockwise until the timing marks are properly aligned per the shop manual. GM dealers sell a special cam sprocket locking tool with a little window which helps to align the cam timing marks correctly. Unfortunately the tool is rather pricey so I opted for the European locking tool (about $ 25 on eBay) which is made of plastic but works quite well (but does not have the window like the OEM GM tool). Always insert the locking tool before removing the old belt. If your new belt is improperly installed, with a tooth or two off, I would make sure that the crankshaft sprocket timing mark is properly aligned at 12 o'clock and upper cam sprocket marks aligned as close as possible. Then remove the old belt. The cam sprockets will probably move slightly out of position as this point due to valve spring tension. Have a helper rotate both cam sprockets to the correct position and hold while slipping the locking tool between the cam sprocket gears. After that, recheck the timing marks on the crankshaft sprocket and readjust if necessary. Then install the new timing belt and new tensioner and idler pulleys. Remove the locking tool and rotate the engine clockwise by the crankshaft bolt at least twice and make sure all timing marks line up.

I have changed several timing belts on engines far more complicated than this Sonic engine and one step that should never be overlooked is rotation by hand of the engine by the front crankshaft bolt clockwise after the new timing belt installation at least twice to ensure that all three timing marks align correctly. I found during one timing belt change that the timing belt on my Mazda 626 V6 DOHC engine was one tooth off during such a check and I repositioned the belt correctly and never had any further issues.

Thank you so much for posting this! I finally got my car put back together. But I'm still very, very insecure about how I set the timing. I just know it's still off. I could feel it in my gut. These are the most detailed instructions I've gotten and exactly what I needed. I'm going outside right now and open her app and follow these instructions exactly. So you say I don't need to worship the cam alignment tool that's supposed to fit into slots? Because mine didn't slide back in by just a hair on each side.

 

[Rockabetty78]

The cams are not supposed to turn freely because the cam lobes act against the force of springs as they open the valves. The only locking tool you need for the timing belt change is the cam sprocket locking tool which fits between the sprocket teeth. First remove the spark plugs which will make engine rotation by hand much easier. Then rotate the engine by the crankshaft front bolt clockwise until the timing marks are properly aligned per the shop manual. GM dealers sell a special cam sprocket locking tool with a little window which helps to align the cam timing marks correctly. Unfortunately the tool is rather pricey so I opted for the European locking tool (about $ 25 on eBay) which is made of plastic but works quite well (but does not have the window like the OEM GM tool). Always insert the locking tool before removing the old belt. If your new belt is improperly installed, with a tooth or two off, I would make sure that the crankshaft sprocket timing mark is properly aligned at 12 o'clock and upper cam sprocket marks aligned as close as possible. Then remove the old belt. The cam sprockets will probably move slightly out of position as this point due to valve spring tension. Have a helper rotate both cam sprockets to the correct position and hold while slipping the locking tool between the cam sprocket gears. After that, recheck the timing marks on the crankshaft sprocket and readjust if necessary. Then install the new timing belt and new tensioner and idler pulleys. Remove the locking tool and rotate the engine clockwise by the crankshaft bolt at least twice and make sure all timing marks line up.

I have changed several timing belts on engines far more complicated than this Sonic engine and one step that should never be overlooked is rotation by hand of the engine by the front crankshaft bolt clockwise after the new timing belt installation at least twice to ensure that all three timing marks align correctly. I found during one timing belt change that the timing belt on my Mazda 626 V6 DOHC engine was one tooth off during such a check and I repositioned the belt correctly and never had any further issues.

BTW, what does the cam sprocket locking tool look like? Because what you're describing doesn't sound like what I have. I have the kit with the 2 metal pieces that fit between the 2 sprockets.

 

[Growlith1223]

There is a steel bar you can order, part number KM-6628-A. it's just a really thick steel bar that goes into little slots on the driver side of the camshafts, it keeps them in place allowing you to take off the gears and whatnot as well but it acts as another measure for keeping them in place so they don't move around. When i still had my sonic(which i got rid of recently because of getting tired of the constant issues and eventually devolved into loss of compression on cylinder 3 for unknown reasons), i had dealt with the same thing, i moved the exhaust camshaft on accident and it wouldn't go back to its original state. what i had done was put the camshaft locking tool in, then rotated the camshaft ever so slightly forward(towards you), i was then able to slip the 2 piece locking tool into place, and along with the belt. got rid of the p0017 code and went back to its usual self. don't have to rotate that much, but i did have to keep tension on it while putting the locking tool/belt back on. didn't help matters that the cheap kit i bought, the bar was bending while it was locked in lol

Hope that helps!

 

[Rockabetty78]

I need your advice if you can about to get started on the car. I already turned the crankshaft to tdp. The marks line up on the sprockets do not line up. I removed the valve cover and I can see that the cams are not lined up. So I'm starting off with my timing off. What do I do next?

The cams are not supposed to turn freely because the cam lobes act against the force of springs as they open the valves. The only locking tool you need for the timing belt change is the cam sprocket locking tool which fits between the sprocket teeth. First remove the spark plugs which will make engine rotation by hand much easier. Then rotate the engine by the crankshaft front bolt clockwise until the timing marks are properly aligned per the shop manual. GM dealers sell a special cam sprocket locking tool with a little window which helps to align the cam timing marks correctly. Unfortunately the tool is rather pricey so I opted for the European locking tool (about $ 25 on eBay) which is made of plastic but works quite well (but does not have the window like the OEM GM tool). Always insert the locking tool before removing the old belt. If your new belt is improperly installed, with a tooth or two off, I would make sure that the crankshaft sprocket timing mark is properly aligned at 12 o'clock and upper cam sprocket marks aligned as close as possible. Then remove the old belt. The cam sprockets will probably move slightly out of position as this point due to valve spring tension. Have a helper rotate both cam sprockets to the correct position and hold while slipping the locking tool between the cam sprocket gears. After that, recheck the timing marks on the crankshaft sprocket and readjust if necessary. Then install the new timing belt and new tensioner and idler pulleys. Remove the locking tool and rotate the engine clockwise by the crankshaft bolt at least twice and make sure all timing marks line up.

I have changed several timing belts on engines far more complicated than this Sonic engine and one step that should never be overlooked is rotation by hand of the engine by the front crankshaft bolt clockwise after the new timing belt installation at least twice to ensure that all three timing marks align correctly. I found during one timing belt change that the timing belt on my Mazda 626 V6 DOHC engine was one tooth off during such a check and I repositioned the belt correctly and never had any further issues.

Hi, I need some guidance. I'm about to start working on my car. This will be the fifth time I tear it down and I'd like for it to be the last, so I would really appreciate your help. I removed the valve cover and removed the spark plugs. Now trying to turn crankshaft to top dead center but it won't turn! I turned as hard as I could but it's stuck. I hope it's not the engine seized. Tell me it's something I can fix otherwise it's the end of the road for me bc I can't afford a mechanic.

 

[Growlith1223]

it should rotate freely if timing is on point without the spark plugs in
if it refuses to move at all, do not force it as you could have timing off and a valve could be colliding with the piston head, forcing it to rotate at that point could bend a valve, which is no bueno!

Try and rotate it the other way and see if does the same thing the other way. i would also make sure that your crank sprocket down below, and the 2 camshafts are actually in line with eachother. the camshafts will be lined up if you can slip the locking tool into place or if you don't have it, there are little teeth poking out at the end where the locking tool goes into, on the exhaust is one lone tooth and on the intake will be a big one with a space and then a moderate sized one, the tooth on the exhaust will line up with that space on the intake side, or just line up the slits manually, if they are almost perfectly flat with each other, it's safe to say they should be lined up.

crank down below has a arrow on both the sprocket and the engine block, line both up and you should be fine. i don't know if it's right to do but you can also rotate the crank counter clockwise as well. don't quote me on this last bit of advice, as i don't know if that will harm anything. it didn't seem to when i had done it though

 

[Rockabetty78]

it should rotate freely if timing is on point without the spark plugs in
if it refuses to move at all, do not force it as you could have timing off and a valve could be colliding with the piston head, forcing it to rotate at that point could bend a valve, which is no bueno!

Try and rotate it the other way and see if does the same thing the other way. i would also make sure that your crank sprocket down below, and the 2 camshafts are actually in line with eachother. the camshafts will be lined up if you can slip the locking tool into place or if you don't have it, there are little teeth poking out at the end where the locking tool goes into, on the exhaust is one lone tooth and on the intake will be a big one with a space and then a moderate sized one, the tooth on the exhaust will line up with that space on the intake side, or just line up the slits manually, if they are almost perfectly flat with each other, it's safe to say they should be lined up.

crank down below has a arrow on both the sprocket and the engine block, line both up and you should be fine. i don't know if it's right to do but you can also rotate the crank counter clockwise as well. don't quote me on this last bit of advice, as i don't know if that will harm anything. it didn't seem to when i had done it though

Crank rotates counter clockwise about 180° then gets stuck. Can't rotate far enough to line up arrows. The cams do not line up. Can't fit the tool in slots. What do I do?

 

[Growlith1223]

Crank rotates counter clockwise about 180° then gets stuck. Can't rotate far enough to line up arrows. The cams do not line up. Can't fit the tool in slots. What do i do?

You need to make sure that your camshafts are lined up, if they aren't then rotate them to the correct positions. the slot on both camshafts should be perfectly horizontal with the surface of the valve cover. after place the locking tool in. put belt on both camshafts and crankshaft, then attempt to rotate the engine by hand, making sure it doesn't lock up at all. if it does, then one or both camshafts are out of time and colliding with the piston heads. do not force it to move as you can end up bending a valve which is even more costly. Camshafts will have some rotation and they will rotate to a position that is not ideal. just rotate the one that flipped out of time till it lines up with the other one