1.4L Teardown/Modification
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Luv2xlr8
New member
The Sonic does come with an oil pan heater, but only as an added option.
My order got screwed up and they put a heater on mine. I removed/destroyed it long ago.
I thought it would be a good thing no? Would this be a benefit like here in the winter months?
laborsmith
New member
If I lived in North Dakota I would have one. Don't think I need one living in Michigan. So the question could be: how does your winter weather compare to either area. I would imagine Ontario has areas the compare to ND and areas that compare to MI.
Laborsmith
Laborsmith
AxelRipper
Member
Few things:
Recent mention of the oil heater: Only really necessary if you're in a really really cold area (say, regular night temps in the winter below -20F). Above that it isn't really necessary. However, it does speed up how quickly the engine warms up, so plugging a block heater in for a little while before you leave for work means your heater coming up quicker. Without it, really wont hurt your engine beyond normal wear (they test for these things).
On the oil pump: That spring is indeed the variable volume portion of the setup. The outer ring around the vanes can move (controlled by that spring and a pressure switch IIRC) which changes the pumping volume.
Recent mention of the oil heater: Only really necessary if you're in a really really cold area (say, regular night temps in the winter below -20F). Above that it isn't really necessary. However, it does speed up how quickly the engine warms up, so plugging a block heater in for a little while before you leave for work means your heater coming up quicker. Without it, really wont hurt your engine beyond normal wear (they test for these things).
On the oil pump: That spring is indeed the variable volume portion of the setup. The outer ring around the vanes can move (controlled by that spring and a pressure switch IIRC) which changes the pumping volume.
dangerfield007
New member
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Does the bedplate require a special liquid gasket for resealing? I see from the pic. that there is a groove on the sealing surface of the bedpate
Does the bedplate require a special liquid gasket for resealing? I see from the pic. that there is a groove on the sealing surface of the bedpate
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The M32 Martyr
Work has been really hectic, but I'm still moving forward. I'm shipping one of the pistons and rods to DDMW tomorrow. He is going to have a set made for me to withstand the power I plan to abuse them with.
I've decided to stick with 9.5:1 CR. Hopefully I'll have the head dropped off at the machine shop soon for springs and a valve cut. I also want to talk to the guy about a possible cam re-grind.
270whp will likely be possible with just the GT25 on the stock engine, but I want to build up this engine to allow headroom for more.
I've decided to stick with 9.5:1 CR. Hopefully I'll have the head dropped off at the machine shop soon for springs and a valve cut. I also want to talk to the guy about a possible cam re-grind.
270whp will likely be possible with just the GT25 on the stock engine, but I want to build up this engine to allow headroom for more.
firstorbit84
New member
how much do you think you could get with minimal head work, stock block/internals, and just new valve springs?
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The M32 Martyr
Springs won't help with the stock turbo, as it falls flat before 6k. Stiffer springs are all about intending to handle higher revs. But higher revs multiplies forces on internals very quickly.
So bigger turbo, and stiffer springs should help for making power above 6k, but the internals will be at risk.
The entire timing cover plus all accessories would need to be remove to change springs, because overhead cams.
Considering the amount of effort, it'd be an effective time to pull the motor and do internals.
Pistons will be in the $500 ballpark. Not sure about the con-rods yet.
So bigger turbo, and stiffer springs should help for making power above 6k, but the internals will be at risk.
The entire timing cover plus all accessories would need to be remove to change springs, because overhead cams.
Considering the amount of effort, it'd be an effective time to pull the motor and do internals.
Pistons will be in the $500 ballpark. Not sure about the con-rods yet.
firstorbit84
New member
So what does "floating springs" mean? how do you know when it is happening? and what are the consequences?
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
At 6000 rpm, the valves are opening and closing 50 times a second.
50 times a second!!
If the spring isn't strong enough to close the valve quickly enough, and remember boost is fighting back from the other side, then the piston will contact a valve..... Usually an intake valve.
But stiffer springs also cause more resistance and friction in the valve train, and that increases wear on components. So too stiff is also a bad thing.
50 times a second!!
If the spring isn't strong enough to close the valve quickly enough, and remember boost is fighting back from the other side, then the piston will contact a valve..... Usually an intake valve.
But stiffer springs also cause more resistance and friction in the valve train, and that increases wear on components. So too stiff is also a bad thing.
Luv2xlr8
New member
I have a pic of one of my motors that suffered from a valve float at 8800rpm. Couldn't figure how to just post the pic using from my iPhone so I copy pasted my photobucket. It's the last pic on this page.
B16 Pics Photos by Luv2xlr8_ej8 | Photobucket
Here is video of a valve float on you tube.
Short Valve Float Movie - YouTube
B16 Pics Photos by Luv2xlr8_ej8 | Photobucket
Here is video of a valve float on you tube.
Short Valve Float Movie - YouTube
AJH
New member
Engine builders are always looking for a spring rate that is just high/strong enough to close the valves at the highest RPM the engine will see. Why not just put in "overtight/super-heavy" springs you ask??? Well, the heavier the springs the more friction, which requires more power to rotate the engine and puts extream loads on the cam surfaces. Also the heavier the springs (mass) the easier it is to float a valve. Think about it, the valve train (valve, spring, keeper, shims or actuator arms) are stitting still, then accelerate like mad when the cam opens the valve, then de-accelerate to zero as the valve is full open, then accelerate like mad back towards the valve seat, de-accelerate just in time to land on the seat for a moment until it happens again. The faster the engine spins, the faster the valve train moves, the faster the valve train moves the more force needed to control the valve (force = mass x acceleration) think of it like this, the more you rev an engine the "heavier" the valves appear to the engine. Builders will mass/weigh all the moving parts of the valve train and try to calculate the ideal spring rate for the engine. This is also why people pay LOTS of money for things like titanium valves. Titanium is lightweight (but as other properties that make it a PIA to deal with) which in turn means less force, which means "less" spring, which means less mass.
Also realize that when you float the valves you probably won't hit the piston (unless you are running crazy tight clearness/crazy cam lifts. What usually happens is that the valve doesn't make it back to the cylinder head before the cam starts to open it again. Bad for the cam because of the shock of the valve slamming into it, worse for the exhaust valve because the brief contact with the head is when it can dissipate most of the extreme heat it sees. The exhaust valve will get so hot that the edges will begin to melt, it can cause the engine to detonate the incoming fuel charge (acts like a glow plug) the valve doesn't seal and you lose compression and power, this is known as having burned valves. So what usually (in my readings on this) cause the piston and valves to meet in catastrophic failure? Remember how the heat traveles into the cylinder head/into the cooling system through the valve seat?. Well, some of the heat also traveles up the valve stem and into the valve guide, BUT if the valve overheats then the valvestem and guide gets so hot it will a; vaporize the lubrication in the guide and b; seize/stick in the guide due to no lubtication and the fact that the hotter the valve gets the more the metal expands, reducing the clearance between the valve stem and guide (when this happens the valve will hang open and then the valve can, and will, hit the piston) Turbocharged cars tend to run even hotter on the exhaust side because of how much heat is retained in the turbo so valve float is even more dangerous for us..
Oops, that was probable more info than anyone wanted..
Also realize that when you float the valves you probably won't hit the piston (unless you are running crazy tight clearness/crazy cam lifts. What usually happens is that the valve doesn't make it back to the cylinder head before the cam starts to open it again. Bad for the cam because of the shock of the valve slamming into it, worse for the exhaust valve because the brief contact with the head is when it can dissipate most of the extreme heat it sees. The exhaust valve will get so hot that the edges will begin to melt, it can cause the engine to detonate the incoming fuel charge (acts like a glow plug) the valve doesn't seal and you lose compression and power, this is known as having burned valves. So what usually (in my readings on this) cause the piston and valves to meet in catastrophic failure? Remember how the heat traveles into the cylinder head/into the cooling system through the valve seat?. Well, some of the heat also traveles up the valve stem and into the valve guide, BUT if the valve overheats then the valvestem and guide gets so hot it will a; vaporize the lubrication in the guide and b; seize/stick in the guide due to no lubtication and the fact that the hotter the valve gets the more the metal expands, reducing the clearance between the valve stem and guide (when this happens the valve will hang open and then the valve can, and will, hit the piston) Turbocharged cars tend to run even hotter on the exhaust side because of how much heat is retained in the turbo so valve float is even more dangerous for us..
Oops, that was probable more info than anyone wanted..
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