Changing your Sonic's oil.

[Eric Smit]

I also do have spindly little girl hands, so that might be it. ;P


-Eric Smit

 

[ChrisJ]

I also do have spindly little girl hands, so that might be it. ;P


-Eric Smit

Yea, it must be your girly hands..

 

[GeneralZod]

Not sure why people are itching to change their oil so soon during break-in and after. Using your eyes to inspect is oil is crazy. Why not just pay for the OA?

Even the mid-grade oils are at a point to not fear (I won't use them). Generally, if there is internal engine damage it normally falls under wrong oil used, poor engineering, or bad batch (part or oil). However, those are few and far between.

Oil also needs to break-in. It isn't long, but friction can be higher during the early start of the oil change interval. As for the metals in the oil. That is normal for a new motor. It is most likely back flow from the filter during that change. It also sits on the bottom of the oil pan. The "stuff" you can't see is what matters. If you can see it, the filter will stop it.

If it is a quality filter then there is less to worry about. WIX is very good, NAPA Gold use to be made by WIX. I think that may have changed. OEM filter is a quiality filter maker too.

As the Blackstone OA in pervious posts (sorry forgot who's post) shows, there are no worries. I can see changing the oil by 50% of the oil life or OCI. By that time, most of the break-in metals will be in the filter. That followed with another 50% OCI just to make sure. Otherwise you are wasting well made oils, filters, and designed parts. GM's oil life monitor uses solid math to figure the oil life. No need to even question it for a simple reason.

Top tier oils can easily beat the OCI. GM relies on a semi-blend to go about 6500 miles. Using M1, Total, or Royal Purple can double that length. And, the additive package in the M1 extended, is a bit of fancy marketing. It focuses on length of time to remain at a certain level. If you drive 15K miles in 6 months any M1 can do it on one change. It is however, a better oil, in that it can take abuse.

Sorry for the long post. I keep seeing posts that are not following science. If inerested google: Bob the oil guy.

 

[Papasonic]

I believe that most owners that want to drain the original factory oil fill prematurely do so because: 1. Not knowing what manufacturing residues are present from the manufacturing processes. 2. Not knowing what the original fill lubricant was. 3. How long the original fill has been in the engine prior to delivery, and under what conditions it had been exposed to.
I think the reason that owners change their vehicles oil prior to the recommendation by the oil life monitoring system is that when they pull the dipstick, and the oil looks like black or dark brown paint, and has an obnoxious odor; they get a little nervous about protecting their investment.

Also we must remember that the auto manufacturers are in the business of selling new vehicles; and aren't necessarily concerned about their longevity.

I agree that there is a lot of oil replaced that has a lot of useful life left; but with recycling practices in place, there should be minimal environmental damage.
Changing oil is still the most effective, economical insurance in prolonging the service life of the engines in our Sonics.

Papasonic

 

[GeneralZod]

I believe that most owners that want to drain the original factory oil fill prematurely do so because: 1. Not knowing what manufacturing residues are present from the manufacturing processes. 2. Not knowing what the original fill lubricant was. 3. How long the original fill has been in the engine prior to delivery, and under what conditions it had been exposed to.
I think the reason that owners change their vehicles oil prior to the recommendation by the oil life monitoring system is that when they pull the dipstick, and the oil looks like black or dark brown paint, and has an obnoxious odor; they get a little nervous about protecting their investment.

Also we must remember that the auto manufacturers are in the business of selling new vehicles; and aren't necessarily concerned about their longevity.

I agree that there is a lot of oil replaced that has a lot of useful life left; but with recycling practices in place, there should be minimal environmental damage.
Changing oil is still the most effective, economical insurance in prolonging the service life of the engines in our Sonics.

Papasonic

1- If people are that worried, pay the $20-30 for the OA. It will tell you exactly what is in the oil. On top of that, I would bet most of those people are guessing that the oil they use is the best. I have done OAs on diesels from 1 cylinder to 16 cylinders. You would be amazed on how long quality oils can last in some of the roughest conditions. Most of those engines cost in the Sonics of dollars. I am not trying to be a jerk. Just giving some perspective.

2- With GM backing their powertrain for 100k, I wouldn't worry much. I am sure the 1.4 can do much better than 100k. Worry about the rest of the car, the internals will likely look better.

3- Semi-blends and synthetics have no issue sitting for the duration of waiting to be sold. Because they have so few miles waiting on the lot, the only issue is water. One test drive will take care of that.

Dark oil is a part of the life cycle, it is suspending particles. That is a good thing. If it didn't, that would turn into sludge. Smells are something going very wrong and not the fault of the oil. However, both dark and smelly oil is a condition which could be caused by short trips. Easy to figure the cure, spend the day cruising.


I keep hearing of this plan that car companies have to "make" their cars run down. The real issue is cost. GM could make a sonic that could go 500K miles in 10 years, but no one would buy it due to the cost. That is why dump trucks and other forms of heavy machinery cost so much. They are made to last is harsh conditions for years. Even then they have issues.

I also keep hearing about this cheap insurance. To me it sounds more like what you are trying to fight. You are trying to avoid costs, when changing your oil more often is a cost. With that said, how many times have you seen, not heard, engine internals going bad in a motor? Most times cars give up the ghost due to everything else around the internals.

Of course I am talking about people who follow their car's OCI. My last car was a VW TDI PD, the cam was going bad. It wasn't the oil, it was the engineering. You can find sites and forums on that by the boatload. You could even change the oil every day, it still wouldn't go much beyond 125k miles. To me the oil changing issue is emotional, which there is enough science to prove otherwise.

Oh, and tuned cars that are driven hard should have shorter OCIs. However, the oil life meter accounts for being driven hard.

Drive more, worry less, and floor it once in a while.

 

[SUPER SONIC BOOM]

1- If people are that worried, pay the $20-30 for the OA. It will tell you exactly what is in the oil. On top of that, I would bet most of those people are guessing that the oil they use is the best. I have done OAs on diesels from 1 cylinder to 16 cylinders. You would be amazed on how long quality oils can last in some of the roughest conditions. Most of those engines cost in the Sonics of dollars. I am not trying to be a jerk. Just giving some perspective.

2- With GM backing their powertrain for 100k, I wouldn't worry much. I am sure the 1.4 can do much better than 100k. Worry about the rest of the car, the internals will likely look better.

3- Semi-blends and synthetics have no issue sitting for the duration of waiting to be sold. Because they have so few miles waiting on the lot, the only issue is water. One test drive will take care of that.

Dark oil is a part of the life cycle, it is suspending particles. That is a good thing. If it didn't, that would turn into sludge. Smells are something going very wrong and not the fault of the oil. However, both dark and smelly oil is a condition which could be caused by short trips. Easy to figure the cure, spend the day cruising.


I keep hearing of this plan that car companies have to "make" their cars run down. The real issue is cost. GM could make a sonic that could go 500K miles in 10 years, but no one would buy it due to the cost. That is why dump trucks and other forms of heavy machinery cost so much. They are made to last is harsh conditions for years. Even then they have issues.

I also keep hearing about this cheap insurance. To me it sounds more like what you are trying to fight. You are trying to avoid costs, when changing your oil more often is a cost. With that said, how many times have you seen, not heard, engine internals going bad in a motor? Most times cars give up the ghost due to everything else around the internals.

Of course I am talking about people who follow their car's OCI. My last car was a VW TDI PD, the cam was going bad. It wasn't the oil, it was the engineering. You can find sites and forums on that by the boatload. You could even change the oil every day, it still wouldn't go much beyond 125k miles. To me the oil changing issue is emotional, which there is enough science to prove otherwise.

Oh, and tuned cars that are driven hard should have shorter OCIs. However, the oil life meter accounts for being driven hard.

Drive more, worry less, and floor it once in a while.

I totally agree with this, there's no need to keep changing your damn oil every few thousand miles, sh*t it's probably not even black or dark yet, especially if you're using a very good synthetic one. They put those oil life monitors for a reason, not to trick you into destroying your car, wake up people, it's not a ****ing conspiracy or something. This car was made economically, yet everyone is sooo damn quick to change every part & act like their oil is somehow getting extremely dirty within a short period of time, unless you live in a very dirty place, do alot of stop & go traffic daily, or race I wouldn't worry about it. Changing every 5000 or so won't hurt your motor, just use a quality synthetic (with the Dexos label of course lol) & you should be fine in normal conditions. Like he said, you gotta let the oil do it's job, shorter intervals is just counter-productive imho. I'd be more worried about the oil filter than the oil itself going 10-15k. Just keep tabs on it, that's what the dipstick's for. It'll probably get low before getting too dirty anyways, so just lighten up on fast oil changes, this is a tiny 1.4L turbo remember, not some huge big block or exotic engine, it's simple engineering made to last a very long time with minimal service, that's why the tranny fluid is sealed & it has a timing chain. It's basically made to be worry-free, I'll take care of mine don't get me wrong, but I'm not going overboard with unnecessary premature stuff, regular intervals should do just fine, if nothing goes wrong first that is lol!

 

[ChrisJ]

The only reason I'm doing my oil now at 700 miles is because it was a brand new engine. Sure, I hear new engines from the factory are pretty well broken in, but either way I feel its best to get some fresh oil in there.

After this, I will be doing my changes in the 8k-10K range most likely as I have for the past 5 or 6 years. I do agree it is meaningless to change oil simply by looking at it.

That said, I have never heard anything regarding oil needing to break-in before. Another forum I frequent has a member that works for a major oil manufacture and I do not recall him ever mentioning this. Maybe I just have forgotten which is entirely possible.

 

[Lovehanayo]

I also keep hearing about this cheap insurance. To me it sounds more like what you are trying to fight. You are trying to avoid costs, when changing your oil more often is a cost. With that said, how many times have you seen, not heard, engine internals going bad in a motor? Most times cars give up the ghost due to everything else around the internals.

Of course I am talking about people who follow their car's OCI. My last car was a VW TDI PD, the cam was going bad. It wasn't the oil, it was the engineering. You can find sites and forums on that by the boatload. You could even change the oil every day, it still wouldn't go much beyond 125k miles. To me the oil changing issue is emotional, which there is enough science to prove otherwise.

Oh, and tuned cars that are driven hard should have shorter OCIs. However, the oil life meter accounts for being driven hard.

Drive more, worry less, and floor it once in a while.

you are definitely a breath of fresh air

 

[ChrisJ]

Ok so I changed my oil with 700 miles on it. As others have mentioned the oil was on the dark side for whatever reason. I had one small chunk of metal, not sure if it was aluminum or steel but to me it looked like just a booger off of the inside of the block rather than something that broke off.

I saw no metal flakes or silver or anything like I expected and I have to be honest, don't do your first oil change at 700 miles. If I knew it was going to be this clean I would have just waited until 5K or whatever.

 

[SUPER SONIC BOOM]

Ok so I changed my oil with 700 miles on it. As others have mentioned the oil was on the dark side for whatever reason. I had one small chunk of metal, not sure if it was aluminum or steel but to me it looked like just a booger off of the inside of the block rather than something that broke off.

I saw no metal flakes or silver or anything like I expected and I have to be honest, don't do your first oil change at 700 miles. If I knew it was going to be this clean I would have just waited until 5K or whatever.

^See, told ya so! The break-in oil needs time to do it's job, 700 miles was waaay too early, they don't put that sh*tty of an oil in it from the factory. Today's oil is much better than the past, which will in turn last much longer than everyone thinks.

 

[ChrisJ]

^See, told ya so! The break-in oil needs time to do it's job, 700 miles was waaay too early, they don't put that sh*tty of an oil in it from the factory. Today's oil is much better than the past, which will in turn last much longer than everyone thinks.

There is no such thing as "break-in oil"

 

[$ub$onic]

There is no such thing as "break-in oil"

There was way back when. It had more zinc and other elements in it. Modern motors do not use it. Even when rebuilding a older motor u run a cheap oil for a break in cycle then change to good oil

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ChrisJ]

There was way back when. It had more zinc and other elements in it. Modern motors do not use it. Even when rebuilding a older motor u run a cheap oil for a break in cycle then change to good oil

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

AH I see.
Ok, There is no such thing as break-in oil anymore.


Back when my dad built his own engines I do not remember him ever using any special oil. Of course I don't know what he did before the 1980s as I wasn't here.

 

[Bogus]

Just because YOUR first oil change was perfect doesn't mean everyone else's was too. There is a member (I don't remember who) who posted a thread with photos of his first oil change very early with lots of metal flakes throughout and a yellowish greenish tone floating on the surface.

Just like there have been a good number of lemon Sonics, breaking down and having serious problems. Mine never had those problems, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There CAN be bad batches of oil and you don't know until you dump it.

To me, spending the $30 or so on new oil is way worth knowing my car has good oil and not worrying "I hope GM didn't put a bad batch in my car, oh well."

I like to trust car manufacturers but it really comes down to the guys at the factory trying to rush home. Do they care about your Sonic going down the line?

 

[GeneralZod]

The only reason I'm doing my oil now at 700 miles is because it was a brand new engine. Sure, I hear new engines from the factory are pretty well broken in, but either way I feel its best to get some fresh oil in there.

After this, I will be doing my changes in the 8k-10K range most likely as I have for the past 5 or 6 years. I do agree it is meaningless to change oil simply by looking at it.

That said, I have never heard anything regarding oil needing to break-in before. Another forum I frequent has a member that works for a major oil manufacture and I do not recall him ever mentioning this. Maybe I just have forgotten which is entirely possible.

It really isn't a break-in per say. You can read more about oils than you will very want to know by googling bob the oil guy. However, the oil does change a bit in chemistry during the cycle. This allows oil to last as long as they do. Some oils at the start of their life do not fight friction as well at first. Most of this depends on the additive package in the oil. I could go on, but then i would be babbling about shear rates and other garbage.

On the TDI forum, some guys were testing some metal powder additives with impressive results. The only issue is no one knows the long-term effects. However, when added to the trans and engine MPG rates have gone up.

 

[GeneralZod]

Just because YOUR first oil change was perfect doesn't mean everyone else's was too. There is a member (I don't remember who) who posted a thread with photos of his first oil change very early with lots of metal flakes throughout and a yellowish greenish tone floating on the surface.

Just like there have been a good number of lemon Sonics, breaking down and having serious problems. Mine never had those problems, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There CAN be bad batches of oil and you don't know until you dump it.

To me, spending the $30 or so on new oil is way worth knowing my car has good oil and not worrying "I hope GM didn't put a bad batch in my car, oh well."

I like to trust car manufacturers but it really comes down to the guys at the factory trying to rush home. Do they care about your Sonic going down the line?

I had to stop reading that thread. I didn't want to post something and get banned. That is one account and we honestly don't know what happened. Did the container have a film of old oil or another chemical? Was the oil in the motor a bad batch? There was not an OA made so in all honesty, it is a guess at best. If changing your oil soon makes you feel better, then do it. Again, the science proves otherwise. The if quality oil and filter are used, it can easily go past the 6500 miles. Would I go 8k miles on my first change, no (my commute is looking like 9-10k OCI). But after that I will follow the oil life meter.

For the Sonic being a newer product what are the lemon percentages? My guess is, it wouldn't be much higher than most GM products. At least GM will realize and publically state they have an issue. VW and Toyota hide as much as possible. Remember, happy people are less likely to post, while angry people are ready to post about their car. Forums tend t be doom and gloom on cars.

And, the guys rushing home do not make the oil while making the Sonic. If you do annual checks for safety, you have more on your side. Just opening the hood and looking around weekly can save you. I don't mind part failure as long as the dealership stand behind they product. It happens.

Do get me wrong, I understand your concern. I have them same; however, there are other items that have a higher failure rate. Things like the trans, electrical system, and sensors. Just don't be the person that beast the piss out of their car expecting it to go 300k... I know people like that.

 

[Bogus]

Hm. I can't really argue with anything you said. lol

 

[mitdr774]

SHort trip city with synthetic I will be changing it between 3-5k. Regardless of what the experts say, I feel that the investment of a new vehicle is worth it to change the oil a little more often and not risk any issues. The slight increase in cost is worth it to not worry about the engine having an issue down the road. I plan on driving my car for far more than the 100k warranty. Only doing 10 oil changes in that time is unacceptable to me.

 

[GeneralZod]

SHort trip city with synthetic I will be changing it between 3-5k. Regardless of what the experts say, I feel that the investment of a new vehicle is worth it to change the oil a little more often and not risk any issues. The slight increase in cost is worth it to not worry about the engine having an issue down the road. I plan on driving my car for far more than the 100k warranty. Only doing 10 oil changes in that time is unacceptable to me.

I understand what you are saying. However, just do a quick search on OCIs. Many engines are running in the 10K mile range. GM uses some pretty slick algorithms to post oil life readings. Things like temps, revs, and a host of other variables. Chances are even GM's monitor is quick.

The wife's Caddy is quick in my opinion. I change it when it requests because she does mostly short trips. I know it could go more, but it ranges from 5k to 8k depending on the season. It is also a V8, that dumps fuel when cold. So the oil in the Caddy gets a beating. Btw, I doesn't like typical M1. It will burn some off. If I use other types of M1, there is no consumption. A reason why the 1.4 uses blended.

 

[LS1notFOUND]

with Corvette using factory fill of Mobil 1, in todays motors (hyralic rollers and not the flat tappet stuff) you don't really need a break-in oil anymore, but a quick first change is something that should be done because of the assembly lubricants (filled with stuff that you would find in your "break in" oil) and other grime that winds up in something not built in a clean room from an Intel commerical.

The term break-in oil actually started simply from most engine builders using a cheap oil the first time around because it would last for assembly, and 500 miles before it was dumped for the good stuff.