Election 2012

[mitdr774]

WIthout the "loans" the companies would have gone through the bankruptcy process on their own without government prodding. The end result would have probably been both companies coming out of bankruptcy sooner, leaner, and with reduced overhead costs. I have a huge issue with how it happened with GM. The UAW was relatively untouched where as the salary employees and retirees got hosed. Gm had to cut some place and they were not allowed to do what they have needed to do for years. Sorry UAW, but making the wages that you do for the job that you do is a bit insane. I have been in several plants and have seen it firsthand. I may have been an outside contractor, but it doesnt take much to notice why quality is down, labor cost is up, and why people hate the UAW so much.

I am all for fair pay for a job, but line work is not a skilled job at all and does not deserve $20+ an hour to do. You could probably take a bum off the streets and in an hour train him to do the same job just as accurately and fast. I wont even start with the "skilled trades" inside the auto plants.

Sorry for the mini rant. I strongly dislike most politicians too.

 

[slitzell]

WIthout the "loans" the companies would have gone through the bankruptcy process on their own without government prodding. The end result would have probably been both companies coming out of bankruptcy sooner, leaner, and with reduced overhead costs. I have a huge issue with how it happened with GM. The UAW was relatively untouched where as the salary employees and retirees got hosed. Gm had to cut some place and they were not allowed to do what they have needed to do for years. Sorry UAW, but making the wages that you do for the job that you do is a bit insane. I have been in several plants and have seen it firsthand. I may have been an outside contractor, but it doesnt take much to notice why quality is down, labor cost is up, and why people hate the UAW so much.

I am all for fair pay for a job, but line work is not a skilled job at all and does not deserve $20+ an hour to do. You could probably take a bum off the streets and in an hour train him to do the same job just as accurately and fast. I wont even start with the "skilled trades" inside the auto plants.

Sorry for the mini rant. I strongly dislike most politicians too.

Agreed, let the market determine prices for wages

 

[mitdr774]

BTW my somewhat pissed offness comes from the fact that my mom retired from GM after 35 years as a salary worker. Basically treated like a useless piece of garbage after retirement. Many people that she worked around were escorted out with no warning just so that GM could trim costs wherever possible. Suddenly people already stretched kinda thin were expected to do even more to cover for the people that were terminated.

 

[slitzell]

BTW my somewhat pissed offness comes from the fact that my mom retired from GM after 35 years as a salary worker. Basically treated like a useless piece of garbage after retirement. Many people that she worked around were escorted out with no warning just so that GM could trim costs wherever possible. Suddenly people already stretched kinda thin were expected to do even more to cover for the people that were terminated.

sounds like capitalism to me. everyone is expendable and thats the way it is, every company is gonna push to run leaner and more efficient otherwise they can't compete. We as people are hired to complete tasks for money, and the ones who pay are the ones who push for more out of their workers. In my eyes there is a strict line between business and personal. And on one likes to be let go, but sometimes those decisions have to made to meet the bottom line.

Look at the oppsooite where in other communist countries where the gov handles evrything including what you make and where you work. Those people wish they had the chance to take risks and get other jobs.

Maybe im old school but im a believer in the American Dream and believe through ambition and hard work much can be achieved

 

[Johnny Alien]

Instead of one that has to put out failed cars like the volt in order to keep the money coming.

The Volt is an incredible advance forward and one of the best electrical designs out there. It continues to sell more each month. The Prius started out priced extremely high with trickling sales and it now sells like hotcakes and is more of a status symbol for rich people that luxury cars.

To sum up....not a failure.

 

[SSpeckerwood]

Is that why, from why I heard, they pulled the plug on the volt?

I made a funny... Hehe

 

[Sliver]

I make $15.87 an hour (not 20+) working on the assembly line that BUILDS THE VOLT and is the overflow plant for the Malibu. It might not be skilled work but many of the jobs involve some ergo issues that can turn into things like carpel tunnel and arthritis down the road. My dad is an electrician (yep, skilled trades :banana at the plant and he is the reason I got to go to college so I'm grateful we're all getting way overpaid! Even though when I retire from GM I won't have access to a pension fund... And why would they pull the plug on the car when August was it's best selling month on record. It's sold 3 times over the Prius Plug In and the Leaf. My plant is being shut down for 4 weeks (Starting September 13th) so we can retool and start building the 2014 Implalas because DHAM will be the overflow plant for that too. The electric car is still very much alive my friend.

And if the Volt pisses you off, wait until they make the Spark an EV
And in 2015, rumor has it my plant will begin production on a Cadillac version of the Volt:banana:

 

[Eric Smit]

My wife is a surgeon's assistant. She is working on people's insides, and makes 14.45 an hour. Who is overpaid?


-Eric Smit

 

[mitdr774]

Capitalism should be allowed to work across the board, not just on the salary non UAW side. GM cut people that they shouldnt have had to and as a result forced others to do far more work than they should ever be expected to do.

I used to be a mechanic, carpal tunnel was a huge risk there. I dont want to hear about ergo issues from plant workers. I didnt get any of the fancy rigs to help me move parts around. I dont have a problem with the sub $20/hour rate. The guys taht have been there for years making over $20 are a huge problem. That job does not warrant that pay. The vast majority of the in house skilled trades I have been around have no business ever turning a screw driver. They spent more time not doing any work (even when they had a stack of work orders on their desk) or trying to get us thrown out of the plant, or even trying to steal our tools than they did doing the work they are there to do. Yes, some of them know what the hell they are doing and can do a damn good job, but most of what i have seem would say otherwise. There is a reason that outside contractors come into the plants to build them.

 

[Johnny Alien]

Is that why, from why I heard, they pulled the plug on the volt?

I made a funny... Hehe

I can't find any source saying they are stopping production. Sales are increasing every month. GM fans should be excited and impressed as the Volt is extremely impressive technology. Also lots of what they learned on that car are being applied to their gas cars such as the Eco Cruze. In a few years as the price comes down I bet the Volt will be as popular as the Prius is.

 

[laborsmith]

Can we have Bush back?

So the job of turning the USA into a 3rd World country can be completed?

Laborsmith

 

[laborsmith]

Some of You people have no idea!!!!

Gm or chrysler wouldn't have failed. They would've filed bankruptcy.


I've filed bankruptcy and i'm not dead yet. They would've renegotiated there contracts with the unions and made for a better company. Instead of one that has to put out failed cars like the volt in order to keep the money coming.

Obama = the fall of our nation!!!!!!!!!!

A few decades ago, the US had a thriving shoe industry (think Florsheim) than bankruptcies started felling the industry. The industry did not dominate the economy and was allowed to fall. There are shoes being made in the US but for a niche market.

Could that have happened to the auto industry on the US. You bet your sweet bippy it could have.

Would we be better off if it had? Of course, Orion would not be assembling the Sonic or anything else for that matter.

The world auto industry would have continued, no question about it. But within a decade the US auto industry would be counting annual production in the numbers it today counts monthly production and a decade later would be measuring production in the hundred of units.

If you question my thesis, go ask the shoemakers.

History note; the Cordwainers were amongst the first, if not the first, American labor unions. It was a time of revolution, declaring independence, and the beginning of a new nation.

Laborsmith

 

[slitzell]

Capitalism should be allowed to work across the board, not just on the salary non UAW side. GM cut people that they shouldnt have had to and as a result forced others to do far more work than they should ever be expected to do.

I used to be a mechanic, carpal tunnel was a huge risk there. I dont want to hear about ergo issues from plant workers. I didnt get any of the fancy rigs to help me move parts around. I dont have a problem with the sub $20/hour rate. The guys taht have been there for years making over $20 are a huge problem. That job does not warrant that pay. The vast majority of the in house skilled trades I have been around have no business ever turning a screw driver. They spent more time not doing any work (even when they had a stack of work orders on their desk) or trying to get us thrown out of the plant, or even trying to steal our tools than they did doing the work they are there to do. Yes, some of them know what the hell they are doing and can do a damn good job, but most of what i have seem would say otherwise. There is a reason that outside contractors come into the plants to build them.

I wouldn't say force. The workers chose to do whats needed to be done bc they want their job. They could of chose to leave ad get work elsewhere, but end of day there are 100's waiting to take an open spot. I think in today's time people should be happy they have a job, whether or not they think they do to much work. Most people i talk to think they do too much work for their pay and always point the finger to the richer folks and say how much nicer it is to be like them. The facts are that its not always the case. Most wealthy, (not all obvs there are many expections) work very long hours and take a lot of risks to get where they are.

just my 2 cents not trying to be a dick

 

[SSpeckerwood]

A few decades ago, the US had a thriving shoe industry (think Florsheim) than bankruptcies started felling the industry. The industry did not dominate the economy and was allowed to fall. There are shoes being made in the US but for a niche market.

Could that have happened to the auto industry on the US. You bet your sweet bippy it could have.

Would we be better off if it had? Of course, Orion would not be assembling the Sonic or anything else for that matter.

The world auto industry would have continued, no question about it. But within a decade the US auto industry would be counting annual production in the numbers it today counts monthly production and a decade later would be measuring production in the hundred of units.

If you question my thesis, go ask the shoemakers.

History note; the Cordwainers were amongst the first, if not the first, American labor unions. It was a time of revolution, declaring independence, and the beginning of a new nation.

Laborsmith

Do you happen to like Karl Marx's?

 

[SSpeckerwood]

So the job of turning the USA into a 3rd World country can be completed?

Laborsmith

I was making 6 figure digits under bush. Now I'm not.
I'd say its more like a 3rd world country with a Muslim as president.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28

 

[laborsmith]

Do you happen to like Karl Marx's?

No. I am a Liberal with a capital L, though.

Two comments about bankruptcy: there was no capital anywhere to finance the auto bailout. Not even Bain Capital. Either governments did it or the industry moved west. All the way west, to China and India, whose governments were then and are now quite happy to finance (read subsidize) auto industry systems.

For the second, I refer you to the current ROLLING STONE issue, where Tim Dickinson brings to light the facts regarding the federal bailout of Bain & Company, the predecessor to Bain Capital.

Laborsmith

 

[SonicMan]

I was making 6 figure digits under bush. Now I'm not.
I'd say its more like a 3rd world country with a Muslim as president.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28

I wasnt making 6 digits but I was making 30 dollars a hour when bush was in office and as soon as that mf Barack Hussin Obama took over the company I worked for was forced to close so I'm currently unemployed, can't blame any one but Hussein he is in charge bottom line what ever happens its on him he is our leader I love it when people still bring up Bush and try to blame him but it's been 4 years and this idiot has only made things worse and now he wants to run again the way I see it you might as well give someone else a shot at fixing Husseins mistakes, I don't care who takes over because I know they could do no worse than this idiot !!!!!

 

[SonicMan]

YouTube: the angry black man

 

[laborsmith]

At least, SonicMan, you are able to maintain the same degree of civility that those persons representing the Republican party in the House and the Senate have shown.

Laborsmith

 

[Johnny Alien]

I'd say its more like a 3rd world country with a Muslim as president.

You are aware that he isn't a Muslim right? Just want to confirm. The way everyone throws his middle name around it's as if you guys really believe that he is a Muslim terrorist.

I rarely get into debates. I will say that I am card carrying Republican and did not vote for Obama last election. He promised to alter the student loan industry which would affect my job and he kept true to his promise but we weathered through it and are actually doing really well despite everything. I am not hip to vote for Romney either for the record. I wish the Republicans could have had some better choices.

That aside the hatred for him extreme and the uninformed rhetoric such as trying to paint him as a Muslim or claiming he wasn't born in the US just shows how small we have become as Americans.

I am also amused by the amount of people hating on healthcare reform when it is 100% lock stock and barrel a Republican plan. Don't believe it? Do some research on Dole's healthcare plans while Clinton was in office and you will see where this came from. In addition it's what Romney did on a state level. It is so far from the universal healthcare that liberals wanted that it's silly. It benefits big business and prevents us from fronting the ER bills for those that are uninsured. Republicans should be fine with it but just because it came from Obama we will all just reject it and complain.

I am seriously thinking of voting all Democrat for the next two years. I voted straight Republican last time to offset the majority and every numb nut we put in office sat on their hands and refused to work with the Democrats. Guess what.....I don't reward people for acting like babies and refusing to do their job. Clean house until we can find some Republicans that will do more than sit back and try and get other people ousted by doing nothing at all.