Sonic sales taking a dive

[Ponchoguy]

What is has to do with is economic indicators are now similar to those which led to the 2008 recession. Which, in turn, led to GM and other car makers scrambling to make smaller cars that got better MPG and cost less than an SUV. Based on what I've read and taking into account the political and international conditions. . . things may hit the fan again in negative economic ways in the next 18 to 24 months or sooner. I hope they/I am wrong, but it sure is setting up for a perfect storm again. Last time, many with what appeared to be secure jobs lost them over night.
. . . So, GM is, I believe, making a mistake scuttling the Sonic just when things may be taking a turn. The two things that triggered the 2008 Great Recession and car makers loosing massive sales were high gasoline prices and bank credit drying up . . . not just for car loans, but for businesses to run also.
Car making is a cash flow sensitive business. And if GM has no small cars they are making, it will be a poor time to try and jump back in and start with another product.

If a person really wants so know what this has to do with the Sonic.. . . read all of the Linked and associated articles. . . without skimming . . . to see the economic forces at work. Those forces dictate bank rates, business climate, and how they affect jobs and careers. But most are not paying attention to the gremlins behind the curtain.

And, glad to hear that someone got a good finance position job. However, one example is not representative of what is going on across the board in careers and across the country region to region.

If you have to work at a "menial" job to make a transition, then that's what you do. You work hard, work long and work at it. There's no free ride. A college education guarantees you nothing (I have an MBA, btw). A plumber is just as intelligent and for all the "brains" in school that laughed at the kid going to trade school, when your toilet won't flush, unless you can fix it yourself (I can, as can many of you), that "kid" you called "dumb" in school is laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes, boys and girls, getting your hands dirty can be profitable and rewarding too.

 

[Ponchoguy]

No idea what this has to do w/Sonic JTee and I have no idea where you live. But where I am its not necessarily an economic hotbed. Yet when my employer was trying to fill a finance position last year they had a heck of a time just finding qualified candidates. And no, its not a $11-14/hr position. It's $50k/year + respectable benefits in a low turnover area. They finally found someone, but it was really a 4th or 5th choice kinda candidate.

That's because a lot of people scoff at a $50k a year job and say, "I should be making $100k, that's beneath me". No it's not----you may have to take that $50k and work your way up, or move on after a few years time. Maybe you'll never make $100k a year, maybe you will. So, you scale down and do without to survive. Adding to the fact that school costs upwards of $75k a year, people feel that they should be making back what school cost them. Ain't happening, kids. Maybe community college or city university was the way to go to keep costs down---and yes, the people there are just as intelligent.

Also many people feel for $50k, they should have a 9-5 job and not have to stay beyond that. Well, corporate America has you. A salaried job, you get paid but they "own" you. An hourly job, you work, you get paid. All works out depending on how you slice it.

 

[OssiansFolly]

Man, reading page 18 was kind of funny. Seeing people mention MPG and the current political atmosphere in regards to rising oil prices, and here we are today...

Gas prices going up and oil will continue to rise. Even in my area with reasonable prices, gas is $2.78/gallon with the expectation that it will hit $3+ before June.

 

[JTee2017]

I hear you, but we think differently. I'll take our former tenant we had at my grandfather's house: three kids, provisional civil service job (i.e. not permanent, could be dropped at any time, did not take a civil service test like he was supposed to do), debt through their eyeballs. Squarely his fault.

Nothing to do with how anyone thinks. It has to do with the facts and links I've presented. Missing the points as exemplified by your "Tenant" example. Sure there are those like that, but you seem to be missing the points and ignore them citing one example as though it is the norm for people struggling. . . It is not.
There are as many or more trapped by the results of the 2008 financial fiasco as I have outlined but you, like many others, choose to ignore. See . . that is what most people who are doing well or even ok do. . . put the blame on even those who have bettered themselves, but the education business fostered false hopes for a career and the companies now taking advantage of the the economic climate have both stymied a way out in any reasonable time frame. And those with only some college or working in labor jobs fare even worse due to what 2008 has wrought.

I doubt you have read much if any of the links I provided in earlier posts.

LINK:- https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/[/COLOR]

" - In 2007, the last year before the Great Recession, the average income of the middle 60 percent of American households was $76,443. It would have been $94,310 (by now), roughly 23 percent (nearly $18,000) higher had inequality not widened.
Our country has suffered from rising income inequality and chronically slow growth in the living standards of low- and moderate-income Americans. This disappointing living-standards growth—which was in fact caused by rising income inequality—preceded the Great Recession and continues to this day. - "


Looking forward
The historically low rate of labor productivity growth during the current business cycle has limited gains in living standards for Americans during this period. U.S. workers have had to work more hours in order to produce the current supply of goods and services than would have been the case with higher productivity growth. During the current business cycle, real hourly compensation (the gold bars in chart 6) has increased 0.7 percent, which is low by historical standards.
In addition, low productivity growth has limited potential gains in worker compensation and in shareholder profits; these income gains are ultimately dependent upon gains in goods and services produced per hour of work. Americans would be wise to pay attention to productivity trends in coming years, as these trends will figure prominently in our lives and in the lives of future generations.


LINK:- https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-6/below-trend-the-us-productivity-slowdown-since-the-great-recession.htm

 

[Ponchoguy]

Nothing to do with how anyone thinks. It has to do with the facts and links I've presented. Missing the points as exemplified by your "Tenant" example. Sure there are those like that, but you seem to be missing the points and ignore them citing one example as though it is the norm for people struggling. . . It is not.
There are as many or more trapped by the results of the 2008 financial fiasco as I have outlined but you, like many others, choose to ignore. See . . that is what most people who are doing well or even ok do. . . put the blame on even those who have bettered themselves, but the education business fostered false hopes for a career and the companies now taking advantage of the the economic climate have both stymied a way out in any reasonable time frame. And those with only some college or working in labor jobs fare even worse due to what 2008 has wrought.

I doubt you have read much if any of the links I provided in earlier posts.

LINK:- https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/[/COLOR]

" - In 2007, the last year before the Great Recession, the average income of the middle 60 percent of American households was $76,443. It would have been $94,310 (by now), roughly 23 percent (nearly $18,000) higher had inequality not widened.
Our country has suffered from rising income inequality and chronically slow growth in the living standards of low- and moderate-income Americans. This disappointing living-standards growth—which was in fact caused by rising income inequality—preceded the Great Recession and continues to this day. - "


Looking forward
The historically low rate of labor productivity growth during the current business cycle has limited gains in living standards for Americans during this period. U.S. workers have had to work more hours in order to produce the current supply of goods and services than would have been the case with higher productivity growth. During the current business cycle, real hourly compensation (the gold bars in chart 6) has increased 0.7 percent, which is low by historical standards.
In addition, low productivity growth has limited potential gains in worker compensation and in shareholder profits; these income gains are ultimately dependent upon gains in goods and services produced per hour of work. Americans would be wise to pay attention to productivity trends in coming years, as these trends will figure prominently in our lives and in the lives of future generations.


LINK:- https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-6/below-trend-the-us-productivity-slowdown-since-the-great-recession.htm

So should all the people that went for education sue the university that issued them the degree because they failed to move up in society? No. You control your own destiny. If you lost out in the past few years, you're doing something wrong. If you chose the wrong career, you change it and do better for yourself.

People struggle because they live OVER their means. You do not need a Smartphone, society tells you that you do. You do not need cable, society says you do. You do not need a new car, society says you do. You do not need the latest fashion trends, society says you do. You do not need to buy books, society tells you to do that. You can go to the library and get what you need, where your taxes pay to staff the library and stock its shelves. You do not need to take a vacation, you can do a stay-vaction and save money. you do not need to eat out, you get better food at home.

All of the things that society "tells you" that you "need" cost money, but you can save money for what's important by being frugal. That is in your control and you can do it. YOU control that.

Remember, these problems weren't created in the last 10 years, they have been festering. We've destroyed our manufacturing base and trade base---traditionally very good jobs for many of the lower and middle class Americans. Someone with barely a high school education could screw bumpers on for years and years at the automakers and come out fairly comfortable. But that's all gone away now for the most part.

I'm not putting anyone down due to lack of education, that's their choice. I'll shake hands with anyone who earns their keep, no matter what your education is. I'd rather work with my hands and mind in combination, but I'll gladly get along with a person that works with their hands.

 

[JTee2017]

So should all the people that went for education sue the university that issued them the degree because they failed to move up in society? No. You control your own destiny. If you lost out in the past few years, you're doing something wrong. If you chose the wrong career, you change it and do better for yourself.


.

More of the same points of deflection. . . Some truths but ignore the real issues and repeat the cliched and over used - - - "They're doing something wrong."

Chose the "wrong career" after following the guidance of the education experts and enrollment advisors? So. . after going into massive debt of $40,000, $50,000, $80,000 in college loans .. . . somehow come up with the cash to go into even more debt when you can't get the job to pay for it already? That seems to conflict with your "Spending beyond their means" argument.

Refusing to acknowledge the facts over and over and repeating a narrow minded opinion of what others should do is evidence of no real argument let alone facts.

Demand for goods and services are down since pre 2008, influx of foreign workers also, yet corporate profits and the stock market at an all time high when productivity has been in the hole for at least TEN years? This contradicts conditions of a healthy economy and smacks of a faux investment market.

The Truth is, opinions on what others should or should not do does not concur with the F-A-C-T-S in the LINKS I provided regarding the state of employment, the economy and the decline in people's well being/opportunities.
LINKs:-
https://www.epi.org/publication/class-of-2016/

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-6/below-trend-the-us-productivity-slowdown-since-the-great-recession.htm

https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/
https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-...-recession.htm

Go ahead and restate the same opinionated fallacies.

Have the last word if you must. It proves nothing when denying reality and the facts.

Apologies to the forum for this derail. But what is described here is what set us up for the Great Recession of 2008 and the later introduction of the 2012 Sonic, because the economy and employment sank and gas prices reached all time highs. We are headed this way again and yet GM sees fit to scuttle the Sonic.

 

[gnonne]

First Generation College Grad and 2-yr College Math Professor weighing in here...

Both of you are right on some points. Yes, times are tough, even for recent college grads and yes, individual effort does matter.

But, its NOT some devious conspiracy NOR is it simply a matter of not wanting to work your way up.

From all the information I have heard, the single biggest predictor of earnings is attained SKILLS. Some skills are learned in degree programs, some are not.

The biggest problem I see in education is that we are NOT requiring enough skills, be they intellectual or physical, and its getting worse. Due to the decreasing preparation of incoming students, dedicated educators are constantly being told to increase graduation rates by reducing standards, and traditional "hard skills" have all but been replaced by other aspects of education like "valuing community."

It saddens me that going along with all of this is required to keep one's job and that having reasonable standards for student performance makes me an outcast on many campuses. But, one person can't change the culture.

So, let's be clear about what we are doing. We are re-creating college courses, values, and degrees in an effort to produce graduates who have not developed the necessary skills for success. Yet, we are expected to believe and act as if we have helped them.

Even some of the "top reformers" in higher education simply don't understand how things work. Recently, I met with some people who said "We know that students who complete 2-year degrees have higher completion rates after transferring than those who start at the same 4-year colleges, so we need to make it easier to complete the 2-year degree." Clearly, there are huge lurking variables here, like the fact that generally less than 25% of 2-year college students complete a degree. It may be that we are not "making them smart by granting them a degree," rather the smart ones are completing degrees. Also, the claimed "better success rates for 2-year graduates" do not exist at moderately or highly selective 4-year colleges, but only at 4-year colleges with minimal selectivity, to which 2-year graduates most often transfer, which also attract weaker students initially.

A major reason for most educational problems in the US is that those who can't compete in the marketplace with their limited skills end up as K12 teachers. Other countries do not have the issues we have in education because they have dedicated and SKILLED persons involved at all levels of education. We simply don't have this in the US.

If you are not so good at algebra in college and you really dislike math, you switch to elementary education. If you are not so good at trig or calculus, you switch to secondary education. And, if you are a decent football coach, a HS will hire you as a math teacher...

It's no wonder that when students arrive at my college classroom they think I am asking them to do things they never did before. I am, and I'm doing it to try to help them build skills.

 

[Pirate Luke]

This thread got me like: opcorn:

Haha.

On a real note, discussions like this are extremely beneficial. Perspective is a beautiful thing. As a “millennial”, I find these prior posts rather interesting. I think you’re all right though. Lots of variables.

Thank you JTee for providing all the solid links and data. At the very least, this discussion may push people to do a little more of their own research on the topic.

 

[Lazza]

I'm in my 60s and got a Computer Science degree in 1977. Although tuition has gotten FAR more expensive since then I think many of the fundamental probably young adults from the 1970s still have today:

- graduating from a four year college requires so much maturity. Tremendous pressure wrt exams, scheduling your classes appropriately, time management and prioritization, etc. It makes high school look like child's play. And if you are studying away from home there are all the distractions (partying).

- how in hell does one know what to major in? You won't know what you'd like to do until you actually do it. Although my college degree lead to a terrific career I chose my major at the last minute, fingers crossed.

- once graduating and moving out into the real world presents even more challenges. Job interviews, having enough money to start out, etc. So much to learn with no one to teach you.

Yeah, hot jobs of yesteryear are disappearing and more people seem to be forced into the "gig economy". This worries me. But there are always emerging industries that can be the stepping stones to brilliant careers for those who keep their eyes open.

Oh, and I hope the Chevy Sonic sales turnaround! (..although I got tired of the stick shift and sold mine)

 

[JTee2017]

First Generation College Grad and 2-yr College Math Professor weighing in here...

Both of you are right on some points. Yes, times are tough, even for recent college grads and yes, individual effort does matter.

But, its NOT some devious conspiracy NOR is it simply a matter of not wanting to work your way up.

Thank you for the first hand perspective. Good to hear from someone who is successful in attaining what they set out for. My nephew also graduated 2 years ago, served an internship in IT at a company and then was hired by them. So did not mean to portray that there is some sort of conspiracy, unless it could be defined by a "dumbing down" of skills and style of curriculum as you seemed to imply. That I think is purposed in order to get more through the education "business" that I related to. There is a more commercial aspect to higher education than there used to be. And teaching? Well, my wife is a high school guidance office administrator and sees what is happening there. The public wants quality education as they should, and the politicians say they are all for it, but continue to exercise more mandates that pertain to test results rather than provide real skills to students. And then there is the sports thing that seems to override it all.

That said, there is much more information that I have found regarding both employment of college grads and the general public with less education. All are not academically or intellectually able or inclined. Does that imply they do not deserve the dignity of personal and family well being with enough income to provide for current and future financial needs?
The Guilds were a concept and institution that recognized and rewarded those who had skills in the physical world. Someone has to keep infrastructure functioning and rebuilt as we are seeing now in America. City water and other utilities for one. I would not want to install or climb high voltage towers, gas lines, or machine heavy equipment or other such endeavors. But I sure am appreciative of those who have the mind set, desire and other attributes to take those tasks on. It follows then that such jobs should be well compensated too. My father and one brother were machinists and did well. A lot more to it than many think. It is not something that can assumed to be just tribal knowledge. A great need for machinists these days companies complain, but the pay and benefits are little more than half of what they used to be in real income. Indeed, in the realm of technical skills, many can not or do not understand doing much of any mechanical, electrical, or even home repairs themselves.

Then there are the different levels of intellectual and social skills. A whole different topic, but those aspects have their own challenges.

Anyway, I agree that many can still attain success. Much has to do with other factors even where a person chooses to live or has to go in order to connect with the field they studied for. I have a few nieces and nephews who had to move across country to do that. Often in places where the cost of living is much higher, which is yet another aspect of this formula for over all well being. To me, that is the real struggle. Finding a balance of personal well being in all aspects of life.

Well, sorry for the rambling diatribe. I just see much of this as a symptom of things that may not be the best for the so called American Dream.

And GM is dropping the Sonic, which I think is a mistake.

 

[Ponchoguy]

More of the same points of deflection. . . Some truths but ignore the real issues and repeat the cliched and over used - - - "They're doing something wrong."

Chose the "wrong career" after following the guidance of the education experts and enrollment advisors? So. . after going into massive debt of $40,000, $50,000, $80,000 in college loans .. . . somehow come up with the cash to go into even more debt when you can't get the job to pay for it already? That seems to conflict with your "Spending beyond their means" argument.

Refusing to acknowledge the facts over and over and repeating a narrow minded opinion of what others should do is evidence of no real argument let alone facts.

Demand for goods and services are down since pre 2008, influx of foreign workers also, yet corporate profits and the stock market at an all time high when productivity has been in the hole for at least TEN years? This contradicts conditions of a healthy economy and smacks of a faux investment market.

The Truth is, opinions on what others should or should not do does not concur with the F-A-C-T-S in the LINKS I provided regarding the state of employment, the economy and the decline in people's well being/opportunities.
LINKs:-
https://www.epi.org/publication/class-of-2016/

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-6/below-trend-the-us-productivity-slowdown-since-the-great-recession.htm

https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/
https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-...-recession.htm

Go ahead and restate the same opinionated fallacies.

Have the last word if you must. It proves nothing when denying reality and the facts.

Apologies to the forum for this derail. But what is described here is what set us up for the Great Recession of 2008 and the later introduction of the 2012 Sonic, because the economy and employment sank and gas prices reached all time highs. We are headed this way again and yet GM sees fit to scuttle the Sonic.

Yes, they are doing something wrong, actually many things:

1) Not adapting to change. Just because you set out to do your degree doesn't mean that's what you're going to do in life. Maybe you do something totally different. My nephew is getting a degree in economics. He got an opportunity with his uncle (not me) being an OSHA inspector. It will make him money and get his feet wet.

2) You made the choice to go into hock, not the school. Don't like the rates? Go somewhere else. Schools are marketing/business just like GM is. If you buy into the hype of the name and not what you can learn from the skills you get from school, you've got bigger problems in life. My MBA was $25k in 1997-1999, and you'd pay triple that for a year of college at some schools today, but I also made sure I went to work for a company that had tuition assistance. So, I paid $10k, the company paid $15k. Yes, I stayed for 6 more years after I got my degree, and no I didn't have to. My degree helped me get and get ahead in my current job. My degree dovetails with both of my jobs, and yes both were/are in the automotive/fleet field which is what I like. But, I worked hard to find them and always had my ear to the rail.

3) You are responsible for your own actions. (I'm very much a Type A personality as you can see). We are thrown curves in life, it happens. We adapt and move on. We all look back and say, "Man I wish I would have done this or that", but that's minor in the grand scheme of things. If your life always went as planned, it wouldn't be exciting. I like things stable too, as do many others. But, you chose that path, those are your actions.

Now back to the Sonic:

1) It failed because it is in a very competitive market and really on the whole doesn't stand out.

2) GM did it no justice by not promoting it.

3) It's a low profit vehicle and GM as they have in the past is going with high profit vehicles, which SUVs are now.

4) Gas is cheap---no one wants an econobox. Until we can "grow" our own fuel, I do believe this is a bad philosophy. We need and should have fuel efficient cars. But they shouldn't look, drive or perform like them. That's the challenge.

5) The Sonic fails for me because it is poor quality. Some of your experiences differ, I get that. But on the whole, it's had some very embarrassing and silly problems. All cars have their problems, but this car takes the cake for me. A head gasket in 35k miles? I blew one head gasket on a car, and it was my fault---my '89 Cavalier which I still have. It overheated and I nursed it home. I changed the gasket, cleaned up the head and was good to go after that.

6) The Sonic has less US content than many "imports" and that to me is both annoying and the source of its quality problems. Adding that to the labor concession used to build the cars and you have an angry workforce and a car put together with bottom barrel quality parts. Never a good combination. The Lake Orion plant assembles the Bolt now too, with Korean made underpinnings.

Like I said, we all differ in what we believe in, and you can present whatever "facts" you'd like, but in the end, you control what you do in life. When it doesn't go your way, pull up your bootstraps and move on, soldier. You've got no one to blame (or thank) but the guy/gal who you see in the mirror.

 

[JTee2017]

Well. . I see you still can't relate to facts presented and only see one dogmatic way of viewing things. I never disputed that people have options and can make choices. Just that there are fewer to make in this economy and not as simplistic and cut and dried as some like to narrowly view. The information I provided would widen your knowledge. Surprising you refuse to accept that with an MBA. Plus. . . this is not 1997. Glad it worked out for you. Not the same playing field anymore nor for all having to make choices. You can cite your own two or three personal examples. That does not equate to the whole.

And, yes. . . we are in control. But not always the way you portray.

Glad to know there are still rose colored glasses to peer through and ignore the facts.

The Sonic is a fine car. I see some of your same faulty logic here being applied to the car and making arbitrary statements about design and sources for parts. You have to "adapt to change". Automotive parts for all brands now come from China, Korea, Mexico and even Viet Nam as I have seen. Got to move along with the times there too.

Am in control here now also so . . . . bye for now. Enough said.

Have a good day.

 

[Pirate Luke]

I think you're both making your points, but again, from totally different "set in stone" PERSPECTIVES. So perhaps someone who stands in the middle of your sides can relate them for future readers, and we can focus attention on the sonic a bit more.

Ponchoguy, JTee is simply providing actual real data that you can use to conclude your own assumptions about the economy, while relaying what he concluded from it thus far. He in no way stated his predictions as truth, and quite frankly, I hope he's dead wrong just as he does too.

Now as for your outlook on how to survive said tanking economy, I can completely relate. I too live my life based around the mentality that I'm in control of my own destiny (as it would seem JTee is too). I've learned over the last few years though, it's okay to live YOUR life that way but expecting others to have those same standards of control just doesn't work. We have 7 billion different personalities on this earth.

You're both climbing the same mountain, just different sides to get there. Let's agree to disagree and all stay one big happy sonic family.

Much love to you all.

 

[Ponchoguy]

I think you're both making your points, but again, from totally different "set in stone" PERSPECTIVES. So perhaps someone who stands in the middle of your sides can relate them for future readers, and we can focus attention on the sonic a bit more.

Ponchoguy, JTee is simply providing actual real data that you can use to conclude your own assumptions about the economy, while relaying what he concluded from it thus far. He in no way stated his predictions as truth, and quite frankly, I hope he's dead wrong just as he does too.

Now as for your outlook on how to survive said tanking economy, I can completely relate. I too live my life based around the mentality that I'm in control of my own destiny (as it would seem JTee is too). I've learned over the last few years though, it's okay to live YOUR life that way but expecting others to have those same standards of control just doesn't work. We have 7 billion different personalities on this earth.

You're both climbing the same mountain, just different sides to get there. Let's agree to disagree and all stay one big happy sonic family.

Much love to you all.

Of course, you're right, we're all wired differently. I agree, not every is like you and not everyone is like me. But for those that cry the blues, look in the mirror. You put yourself there. Stop complaining, blaming everyone else and everything. Deal with it. Move on. Unfortunately, the Sonic is a sunk ship. GM's cast it off into the sunset. I really wanted it to make a splash in the market and succeed, but it wasn't in the cards. It will just go down in GM's history and forgotten about in a few years, but that's life.

 

[Ponchoguy]

Well. . I see you still can't relate to facts presented and only see one dogmatic way of viewing things. I never disputed that people have options and can make choices. Just that there are fewer to make in this economy and not as simplistic and cut and dried as some like to narrowly view. The information I provided would widen your knowledge. Surprising you refuse to accept that with an MBA. Plus. . . this is not 1997. Glad it worked out for you. Not the same playing field anymore nor for all having to make choices. You can cite your own two or three personal examples. That does not equate to the whole.

And, yes. . . we are in control. But not always the way you portray.

Glad to know there are still rose colored glasses to peer through and ignore the facts.

The Sonic is a fine car. I see some of your same faulty logic here being applied to the car and making arbitrary statements about design and sources for parts. You have to "adapt to change". Automotive parts for all brands now come from China, Korea, Mexico and even Viet Nam as I have seen. Got to move along with the times there too.

Am in control here now also so . . . . bye for now. Enough said.

Have a good day.

Your opinion and that's Ok. We're different on this matter and that's fine. I'd still shake your hand in person like anyone else on this forum. But what's done is done---the Sonic is a goner.

 

[Sailurman]

What's Done is Done

Sonic was DOOMED as soon as they released the Butt Ugly Gen II edition. Gen I was promoted by GM because it was a mean looking little Hot Hatch! They softened the Gen II and then realized that they screwed the pooch and trimmed it out of their model lineup. How the TRAX is not gone amazes me. It's as ugly as a Pontiac AZTEC with the looks even a mother couldn't love.

 

[gnonne]

They need the Trax so there is a mini-SUV in the 20-25k price range.

They don't need the Sonic because you can get Cruze's for almost the same money when on special.. My local dealer actually as two Malibus that are under 19k on special. Hard to sell 17K Sonics when a Malibu starts at 19k.

 

[JTee2017]

They need the Trax so there is a mini-SUV in the 20-25k price range.

They don't need the Sonic because you can get Cruze's for almost the same money when on special.. My local dealer actually as two Malibus that are under 19k on special. Hard to sell 17K Sonics when a Malibu starts at 19k.

Yes, I see the Cruze in that lower price range also and some Malibu also with the 20% off deals.

What I don't understand, is a family member I shopped and priced with bought a 2014 Sonic LT hatchback with one or two packages, got about $3,300 off the then $17,600 MSRP or roughly $14,300. The package on the 2014 included (then extras) like the MyLink, foglights, and a few other items.

What happened between 2014 and 2017 to drive the MSRP so much? Mine had MSRP of $21,030 with Convenience Pkg and we got it for $17,500. Granted, in 2017 they upgraded the standard LT to include the RS trim package and included keyless entry, push button start, and now the front driver 4-way power drivers seat. But $3,400 more than a 2014 for that? These were both 1.8L w/automatic. (and the same crappy Hankook tires). First thing I did was buy new tires the very week we bought the Sonic.

I still think loosing the Sonic will be a mistake. Gas prices are going up and the Sonic has nearly the same dimensions and passenger room as the Trax and Encore ( height is slightly more but not much more Cu/ft) and gets better MPG. If gas nears $3.50/gal again there will be a market for the small cars again. I would not even consider a Spark. The Sonic has much more useful room in it. That was surprising to me. In fact, the sedan is nearly compact size rather than sub compact if you compare it to the Ford Focus compact.


-Trax - - - - - 168″ L x 70″ W x 65-67″ H
Sonic - - 160-174″ L x 68″ W x 59-60″ H


Chevrolet Trax: - - -
Dimensions
Passenger Capacity: 5
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.): - TBD -(92.8?)
Front Head Room (in.): 39.60
Front Leg Room (in.): 40.80
Front Shoulder Room (in.): 54.10
Front Hip Room (in.): 51.70
Second Head Room (in.): 38.80
Second Leg Room (in.): 35.70
Second Shoulder Room (in.): 52.80
Second Hip Room (in.): 50.70
Cargo Volume to Seat 1 (cu. ft.): 48.4
Cargo Volume to Seat 2 (cu. ft.): 18.7

Chevrolet Sonic Hatchback: - -
Dimensions
Passenger Capacity: 5
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.): 90.3
Front Head Room (in.): 38.70
Front Leg Room (in.): 41.80 (+1.00 more than Trax)
Front Shoulder Room (in.): 53.40
Front Hip Room (in.): 51.40
Second Head Room (in.): 38.10
Second Leg Room (in.): 34.60
Second Shoulder Room (in.): 53.00 (+0.20 more than Trax)
Second Hip Room (in.): 51.60 (+0.60 more than Trax)
Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down (cu. ft.): 47.7
Cargo Volume to Seat 2 (cu. ft.): 19.0 (+0.30 more than Trax)

 

[Tormach]

It boggles the mind why they are considering scrapping the Sonic. Spark is just to tiny (if I want a car that small I will get the Fiat Abarth). And if I want a cross-over ill just skip the middle man and get a real suv or truck.

Drove both the Malibu and Cruze, I did not like either of them. Def don't like the new cruze with the new 1.4 (hate this new engines with the exhaust mani being built into the head, something about it just doesnt sit right with me) and when I had it for a week, it felt sluggish at best.

 

[wpgsonic]

Dissapointing news for sure.I think I also read the Spark is getting a refresh for 2019 and then it will not be sold in north america after that.So no more compacts from GM....