April MPG Competition powered by Insanika
- Thread starter GeneralZod
- Start date
Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
By request of the thread starter, it's not my fault!
The standard E85 tune is the "blue pill", Vince offers a "red pill" version which generates too much power for the stock clutch, I have both versions set up on selectatune. With the alcohol sensor it's pretty much the standard performance/eco tune when running gasoline, but I figured there might be differences and it would be nice to start tracking them.
I'm also interested in seeing whether people are using performance or eco on their tuned tank runs; last fall I was playing with that on my previous Texas run, and it seemed to me I got better mpg in performance mode. Can't find the envelope with all those receipts though!
No, its significantly less power on 87, well within the stock limitations. But the new clutch is still lighter and there's no reason to think it's costing me mpg. I'm more concerned about whether the injectors or the tune are affecting things; I wonder if it wouldn't be more fuel efficient to swap injectors and go back to the standard "premium" tune when trying for high mpg. Ideally it shouldn't matter, but I wonder.
Macehammer
New member
This may or not be an intelligent question, but if the E85 injectors/tune you are using allow you to be "flexfuel" and there are a bunch of flex fuel vehicle on the road that don't swap out injectors, why would you have to?
And the Red pill, what do I need to do my Auto to be able to handle it? I know I have read at least in one place that the stock Auto can handle more power than the stock Manual, since you are up on all of this, has anyone posted anything about these conditions/facts in numbers form?
I can answer this first question. The stock injectors do not flow enough at full boost/high rpm to support E85. Conversely, the upgraded injectors that are being used for E85 are not particularly efficient at the other end of the spectrum. Flexfuel vehicles apparently have Goldilocks injectors appropriately sized to operate at both extremes.
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
With an auto, you shouldn't need any extra provisions, besides the 42# injectors, E85 and "red pill" tune. I don't know the capacity rating on the auto, but it doesn't need to be higher than the manual to handle the red pill.
I'd love to see someone do it on an auto. It will be much less expensive being that you don't need a clutch and 5 hours of labor to install it.
Eric Smit
Enforcer
An auto 2013 RS had it installed.
Macehammer
New member
The #42 Injectors... Are there any other E85 injectors available? I would hate to lose efficiency on reg gas.... My RS already has an efficiency problem.. Little gears.
Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
Short answer I dunno.
Long answer, I started a new thread in an effort to not derail this one:
Red Pill, Blue Pill, Green Pill
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
There are no E85 injectors. 42is the lbs of FUEL/hr rating and I believe that is the next size up from stock.
If you are all about your MPG, E85 is not for you. It will cost more per mile, even though it costs less per gallon.
E85 will never be as efficient as regular gas, it's science.
If you are all about your MPG, E85 is not for you. It will cost more per mile, even though it costs less per gallon.
E85 will never be as efficient as regular gas, it's science.
Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
if you are all about miles per gallon, yes, that's true. If you are all about miles per dollar, though, it ain't necessarily so.
All it would take would be for your state or the federal government to dramatically increase the tax on gasoline and not on ethanol (or even offer incentives), or for gasoline prices to soar and for E85 to no follow suit. The reason MP$ sucks isn't physics, its current pricing differences. Admittedly you'd have to see E85 at 2/3rds the price of gasoline for it to become competitive... but that's not at all inconcievable, it just depends on what the market or the government decides to do.
All it would take would be for your state or the federal government to dramatically increase the tax on gasoline and not on ethanol (or even offer incentives), or for gasoline prices to soar and for E85 to no follow suit. The reason MP$ sucks isn't physics, its current pricing differences. Admittedly you'd have to see E85 at 2/3rds the price of gasoline for it to become competitive... but that's not at all inconcievable, it just depends on what the market or the government decides to do.
Macehammer
New member
I understand the science, just not aware of limitations/compromises/choices/tradeoffs when moving to a bigger injector.
Eric Smit
Enforcer
The smallest injector for the application (80-85% duty cycle at max) is usually the best injector for the applicaiton. Engines spend very little time in the high rpm and a lot in the lower rpm. The smaller injector will control the flow of fuel better and usually atomize the fuel better than the bigger injector.
BUT, when you're using an injector that's too small, which the stock ones technically are as they run 100% duty cycle near the top, they'll be wide open and fuel will build up on the backside of the intake valve. Vince Geglia recently did a dyno with injectors being the only thing changed and picked up a few horse.
GeneralZod
New member
Here is what we have so far.
Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
Username: Swordsmith
Style: hatch
Trim: LT
Engine: 1.4
Transmission: MT
Tune: premium
Octane: 87
E85: no
Miles: 318.9
Gallons: 10.907
Tank: Mixed
Notes: E85 injectors, Trifecta Blue Pill tune for the most part (some red pill for short bursts). Temps from 44 to 77, it's Texas.
lots of short hops into town and around town, perhaps 5 miles of interstate driving speeds up to 80 each way each trip, a couple longer trips about 25 miles at 70 or so.
Style: hatch
Trim: LT
Engine: 1.4
Transmission: MT
Tune: premium
Octane: 87
E85: no
Miles: 318.9
Gallons: 10.907
Tank: Mixed
Notes: E85 injectors, Trifecta Blue Pill tune for the most part (some red pill for short bursts). Temps from 44 to 77, it's Texas.
lots of short hops into town and around town, perhaps 5 miles of interstate driving speeds up to 80 each way each trip, a couple longer trips about 25 miles at 70 or so.
mitdr774
also a dinner prick
Username: mitdr774
Style: Hatchback
Trim: LT
Engine: 1.8
Transmission: 5mt
Tune: unlogged tune
Octane: 93
E85: no
Miles: 240.0
Gallons: 5.764
Tank behavior: Slow boring 95% highway run to get a baseline to compare with the 15" wheels/tires when I remove the LTZ wheels/225 rubber
Outside air temp varied from 43-56*, IAT stayed between 55-69* (i really need to see if blocking the tube from the fenderwell helps this), very little wind
Style: Hatchback
Trim: LT
Engine: 1.8
Transmission: 5mt
Tune: unlogged tune
Octane: 93
E85: no
Miles: 240.0
Gallons: 5.764
Tank behavior: Slow boring 95% highway run to get a baseline to compare with the 15" wheels/tires when I remove the LTZ wheels/225 rubber
Outside air temp varied from 43-56*, IAT stayed between 55-69* (i really need to see if blocking the tube from the fenderwell helps this), very little wind
