chevy volt

[CoHPhasor]

Yes but companies such as GM are heavily influenced by gov officials since the bailout. Electric cars are expensive because we are not efficient at creating electric cars yet. Its a waste of time right now, use gasoline and "if" someday we were to somehow run out of something that is produced naturally then the market will push companies to create alternate fuel sources such as electric cars efficiently

That's the most short-sighted view I've ever heard.
A solution must come long before that happens.

Your, my, our military doesn't run on Dunkin', nor does it run on electricity.
For now the military is fossil-fuel based and an instance where fossil fuels become far less plentiful 'the market' will have to deal the most incredible prices ever imagined.
Yes, we have reserves, but how long do you think they're going to last? They've already been tapped just to ease the impact on taxpayers and it will happen several more times to come.
In a world where fuels becomes difficult to come by there will be extended campaigns that will quickly and heavily deplete stores as everyone scrambles to get what's left.
Why do you think we're so invested in 'the welfare of the Middle East'?

We're trading out one fuel for another *for now*, but realize all this harping about coal is meaningless.
The country's electrical grid isn't being upgraded for no reason, it needs to grow because of what we're about to do to it.

The supply line of electricity doesn't change which is what is needed for the car's next evolution and replacement of petrol based systems.
Too many technologies differ too greatly and their replacement could be difficult.
Electricity that is piped into a grid is modular and can be pulled/replaced at any time.
You lean on what exists then replace it when possible; hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, etc.
Hell, they already have it rigged to where solar installations can push power into the grid and be paid and solar efficiency is going up.

The future's coming, but I'll be damned if they're going to nail me with the bill when they spend on so much ridiculous **** and send so much of it overseas.
(Kind of defeats the purpose of trying to make your military self-sustainable when everything else depends on another country...)


TL;DR I Know, the basic point is 'the market' is ****, it's 'the money' that speaks and we aren't part of that.
Transportation is a national security issue and it won't be dictated by 'the market'.

 

[SuperFudd]

Here is an interesting headline:

"REPORT: GOV'T MOTORS LOSES $49,000 ON EACH CHEVY VOLT..."

This should bother all of us since we are all major shareholders in GM.

 

[SSpeckerwood]

But it saves gas..... So we should get a warm fuzzy feeling in the back of our pants, kinda like a wet fart. :?

 

[Eric Smit]

I get a warm fuzzy feeling when I rev a 7.0L V8, but that's just me.


-Eric Smit

 

[slitzell]

That's the most short-sighted view I've ever heard.
A solution must come long before that happens.

Your, my, our military doesn't run on Dunkin', nor does it run on electricity.
For now the military is fossil-fuel based and an instance where fossil fuels become far less plentiful 'the market' will have to deal the most incredible prices ever imagined.
Yes, we have reserves, but how long do you think they're going to last? They've already been tapped just to ease the impact on taxpayers and it will happen several more times to come.
In a world where fuels becomes difficult to come by there will be extended campaigns that will quickly and heavily deplete stores as everyone scrambles to get what's left.
Why do you think we're so invested in 'the welfare of the Middle East'?

We're trading out one fuel for another *for now*, but realize all this harping about coal is meaningless.
The country's electrical grid isn't being upgraded for no reason, it needs to grow because of what we're about to do to it.

The supply line of electricity doesn't change which is what is needed for the car's next evolution and replacement of petrol based systems.
Too many technologies differ too greatly and their replacement could be difficult.
Electricity that is piped into a grid is modular and can be pulled/replaced at any time.
You lean on what exists then replace it when possible; hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, etc.
Hell, they already have it rigged to where solar installations can push power into the grid and be paid and solar efficiency is going up.

The future's coming, but I'll be damned if they're going to nail me with the bill when they spend on so much ridiculous **** and send so much of it overseas.
(Kind of defeats the purpose of trying to make your military self-sustainable when everything else depends on another country...)


TL;DR I Know, the basic point is 'the market' is ****, it's 'the money' that speaks and we aren't part of that.
Transportation is a national security issue and it won't be dictated by 'the market'.

Why do we buy oil from the middle east when we are sitting on more oil than we will need. Or gov would rather deal with the middle east than fight environmentalists here at home. The earth is producing the amount larger than the bp oil spill everyday naturally. Im just not concerned yet and global warming is a hoax to me. Im a believer in the free market which will produce outcome when it is economically efficient to do so. There is nothing wrong innovation and research but it i just not practical yet to do so, bc the substitute(gasoline) is much cheaper

And the major powers in the world are all interdependent. We rely on china as much as they rely on us. Globalization is the reason why, and we as people need to embrace it

 

[SSpeckerwood]

If we dropped some bombs, all our debt would be washed away.

 

[Eric Smit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtrPMOKkHvM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

-Eric Smit

 

[mitdr774]

Part of the reason we dont use the oil we have here is that the refineries are set up for the oil in the middle east, not the crude we have here. They would have to either build new refineries to handle the US crude (good luck with that one) or shut down and retool existing refineries (expect a jump in fuel of over $1.00 if that happened). Until the regulations are changed to allow new refineries we are stuck with using foreign oil.

I spent 8.5 months at Marathon oil Detroit working on a new unit to handle oil from Canada. Its a very small unit since they had to build it on existing refinery property due to the fact that they were not allowed to buy new property and build on it.

 

[CoHPhasor]

Why do we buy oil from the middle east when we are sitting on more oil than we will need.t

Because when resources abroad dwindle, that oil required by the military I mentioned will still be plentiful here.

Smoke all the weed of the guy next to you then when he runs out go home and break into your OZ.

 

[oldertech]

Here in Kansas you can live next to a hydroelectric plant, or a wind farm, and know that your Volt would be charged on a more green power than coal or natural gas. Someone has to be out there doing early adopter work.

I have been studying the Volt since day one, and even reported on it for public TV. And got to drive a new Volt on a race track. I still want a Volt, but also acknowledge the cost efficiency of the Sonic, and that's why I'm driving the Sonic today. But what about those used Volts, they will be wayyyyy more affordable.

Beyond Gasoline - YouTube

 

[SuperFudd]

Maybe not so affordable.
It is an $80,000 car. Yes it sells new for half that but it is still an $80,000 car.
Because of this, I suspect depreciation will be minimal.

 

[sx sonic]

Oh that sweet crude. Sweet sweet middle eatern crude.. I can only imagine how minimalistic their refineries are.. exxon here in illinois is tooled up for dirty crude oil. If I recall correctly the sulfur content is the biggest problem with u.s. oil, not sure off the top of my head.

It'll actually be kinda funny when there's a major technological break thru right as we actually start using our oil supply and oil becomes much less critical. I know for a fact we're sitting on some enormous deposits of dirty crude..

Windmills are EVIL. They're killing our geese and birds lol. They put a bunch up in central IL and personally I don't see them as good or bad yet, time will tell.

-tyler

 

[CoHPhasor]

Maybe not so affordable.
It is an $80,000 car. Yes it sells new for half that but it is still an $80,000 car.
Because of this, I suspect depreciation will be minimal.

I'm sorry, but that isn't possible.
I'm sure someone "makes reports", or even tries to claim what the cost is, but it's nowhere near $80k.

Take a good look at the brand new vehicles you can buy for $80k and tell me they're even in the same ballpark.
When I see $80k I see handcrafted this, stitched that, alloy everywhere.
Even if you want to make big claims about the electric/gas combination just compare it to a spec'd out Prius. (Which we already know is profitable)
Do you think it costs 3-4x more to make a Volt than a Prius? Come on now.

What's the deal with the number being associated?
I can only imagine that what they've done is taken the high dollar amount of making a plant for this thing and said;
"Well, this, that, and the other are things we've never needed before so we'll divide that cost by the amount of Volts produced and add it to 'the cost to make!'"

I can't say absolutely, that's speculation, but the honest truth is that there is nothing in that car worth $80k.
It's almost the cost of a Tesla which is built on a retail-priced Lotus body and does crazy performance numbers for ~200 miles per charge. (Hardly comparable)

 

[slitzell]

Part of the reason we dont use the oil we have here is that the refineries are set up for the oil in the middle east, not the crude we have here. They would have to either build new refineries to handle the US crude (good luck with that one) or shut down and retool existing refineries (expect a jump in fuel of over $1.00 if that happened). Until the regulations are changed to allow new refineries we are stuck with using foreign oil.

I spent 8.5 months at Marathon oil Detroit working on a new unit to handle oil from Canada. Its a very small unit since they had to build it on existing refinery property due to the fact that they were not allowed to buy new property and build on it.

The U.S. hasnt built additional refineries since the 70's. So yes we would need to create more but that is a fixed cost and would be quickly overweighed by how much money U.S. oil companies cold make by being allowed to drill in alaska/off the coast of florida. Se have soo much crude we are sitting on but are afraid to tap into it, so we deal with a very effctive cartel theat raises prices, all of that could be changed. Gas could and should only be a 1.50 a gallon. until Americans realize that we will continue to vote for politicians that stand against using our own stuff and would rather deal with sketchy arabs

Obama has made it so we have to drill miles and miles out in the sea which is dumb bc thats how disasters happen in the first place. Why not drill a mile off shore where is more effective and less dangerous

 

[laborsmith]

Here is a link to a summary of oil refining in the US today. I consider this to be a more conservative (as opposed to tree hugging liberal) source but would say the liberal sourced reports are more detailed but not out of step with the linked report: Angry About High Gas Prices? Blame Shuttered Oil Refineries - Businessweek

Laborsmith

 

[SSpeckerwood]

you can't tell me that the presidents poor decisions has zero affect on prices. that's a load of BS

 

[laborsmith]

Poor decisions by the current President?

Did you even glance at the linked article?

Here is another to help you get a little further out on the limb: Public Citizen Climate and Energy

Laborsmith

 

[DelilahJo]

Having driven many volts and leafs, the volt is the clear winner. If I were in the $20,000 more market, I'd be after a volt hard. Chevy did everything right. Electric cars are scary to the public, and to know that you can fill a volt up with gas and drive it worry-free is crucial.

Not to mention the interior is to die for and the electronics are great. It's a lot to take in at first but it's very intuitive... kind of like an iphone. You're confused for the first couple of hours but after that it just clicks. Once EV's become more common, more popular, and cheaper to produce, I think the Volt, like the Sonic, will definitely be a segment leader.

 

[SSpeckerwood]

Poor decisions by the current President?

Did you even glance at the linked article?

Here is another to help you get a little further out on the limb: Public Citizen Climate and Energy

Laborsmith

can liberals do anything other than blame the past??? OBAMA is the president NOW. not Former President George Bush.

Barack can do things to make our country better, he has chose to make it worse.

 

[laborsmith]

SSpeckerwood, you accomplished something that is a rarity with the above post: you got a good chuckle out of me!

You could do well to realize Obama is not a liberal by any stretch of one's imagination. He walks as close to the middle of the road as it is possible to get. I look at the number of actual Republican proposals he adapted only to have the Republicans oppose them as proof.

Any how, in testimony to my oft stated request to not confuse with the facts, this will be my last comment on this subject.


Laborsmith