Insanika
Super Moderator
Awesome. I may be learning something yet! Thanks for the clarity!
Valkyrie
- Thread starter Insanika
- Start date
Awesome. I may be learning something yet! Thanks for the clarity!
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
To elaborate on what LS said. Boost psi is almost synonymous with compression.
When a piston compresses the air/fuel in its cylinder during a stroke, it squeezes 0.35cc of air/gas down to 0.035cc. I'm using 10:1 compression for ease of example, even though the 1.4L is a little less than that.
Compressing a given volume of gas always creates heat. Heat increases the chance of ignition predetonation.... that's a bad thing.
Now add boost to the equation. 14psi of boost is doubling the volume of air/fuel in the cylinder before it is compressed. Now consider the tune adding an additional 6-8psi on top of that.
Under full boost, engine internals heat up rather quickly, so by lowering the operating engine temps, the tune prevents predetonation, allowing the ignition to fire at the desired time instead of too early, which would cause knock, loss of power, additional heat and eventual damage to pistons, rings and valve train.
When a piston compresses the air/fuel in its cylinder during a stroke, it squeezes 0.35cc of air/gas down to 0.035cc. I'm using 10:1 compression for ease of example, even though the 1.4L is a little less than that.
Compressing a given volume of gas always creates heat. Heat increases the chance of ignition predetonation.... that's a bad thing.
Now add boost to the equation. 14psi of boost is doubling the volume of air/fuel in the cylinder before it is compressed. Now consider the tune adding an additional 6-8psi on top of that.
Under full boost, engine internals heat up rather quickly, so by lowering the operating engine temps, the tune prevents predetonation, allowing the ignition to fire at the desired time instead of too early, which would cause knock, loss of power, additional heat and eventual damage to pistons, rings and valve train.
Insanika
Super Moderator
All things I was concerned about with the tune. I guess I never thought one could electronically control engine temps. How is that accomplished?
Red_RS
Member
Insanika
Super Moderator
ChrisJ
Active member
My concern would be if they go too low you will start washing oil off of the cylinder walls. This should be below 190F though if I remember correctly?
ChrisJ
Active member
Red_RS
Member
Ok, so it's been a while since a new-ish car has graced my driveway. All of my other cars the thermostat is mechanical. Like take it out and throw it in a pan of water with a thermometer and heat it up to see if it opens at the correct temp. Sooooo, it never occurred to me that the thermostat might be electronically controlled. :/
ChrisJ
Active member
Honestly I was wondering why they were still using these in the 1980s but the reason was obvious, cost.
There has been no excuse to rely on a cheap $3 mechanical thermostat that is known to fail often when you can use the ECM\ECU to control it accurately. I don't know how many times I've had a mechanical t-stat fail to close fully and it was always in the winter. I also don't know how many I had fail new right out of the box after replacing a working one with it.
My 06GP was giving me luke warm heat right before I traded it in and my wifes 06 Vue was starting to stick closed occasionally but would pop open so I ignored it for a bit. We traded that in also. The tradeins happening for other reasons, but was funny both had tstat issues at the time.
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ChrisJ
Active member
Very long story short.
Up until the 1970s or so most car companies used I believe 160F thermostats. They discovered running the engine coolant at this temperature allowed cylinder walls to be cool enough that it actually caused fuel to condense on the cylinder wall. This both wasted fuel, contaminated oil and washed the oil off of the cylinder walls.
This is why most companies switched to 195F thermostats. I think some use 180F but they are all much hotter than 160.
Ever wonder why engines went from having to be rebuilt at 100K to lasting 200-300K? Better oils AND hotter running temperatures are probably to thank for this.
I don't think you have anything to worry about with your tune letting the engine run at 190-200F.
Insanika
Super Moderator
#1
I was playing with this yesterday.. I still end up fluttering off the gas involuntarily! I have to frown and focus hard on not lifting. But.. how is this not hard on things? The engine still revs pretty intensely if I am not in lower RPM (2500 or less) to start with.
#2
Today I finally took Hubby out for a ride to show him what the tune did. He was pretty stoked Mostly because it makes me happy, he says.
#3
ChrisJ, you were close with the music....kinda. this is Kyrie's theme song, and also where I picked up her nickname, I like the way he pronounces Valkyrie, so I stole Kyrie, saying it like KEE-ree.
I was playing with this yesterday.. I still end up fluttering off the gas involuntarily! I have to frown and focus hard on not lifting. But.. how is this not hard on things? The engine still revs pretty intensely if I am not in lower RPM (2500 or less) to start with.
#2
Today I finally took Hubby out for a ride to show him what the tune did. He was pretty stoked
Mostly because it makes me happy, he says.#3
ChrisJ, you were close with the music....kinda. this is Kyrie's theme song, and also where I picked up her nickname, I like the way he pronounces Valkyrie, so I stole Kyrie, saying it like KEE-ree.
Insanika
Super Moderator
Figured this was more for racing type applications, I did know that the purpose was to not lose boost. I guess I expected something different, can you NLS a car that isn't tuned for it? I would expect an untuned car to act the same way if you tried this on it. What does the tune do that makes this possible or different? I don't spend very much time near redline at all lol. Even in the videos where I've seen you guys use the NLS, it sounds like it's revving like crazy in the in-between. It sounds scary.
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ChrisJ
Active member
Does it cut fuel as well? I would think leaving the throttle wide open and supplying fuel but cutting spark would risk one hell of a backfire the next time it fires. I know it always does with carbureted engines.
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
I'm not positive, but I don't think it cuts the fuel. And with a turbo, a little unburned fuel entering the exhaust manifold is good for keeping the turbine spooled. Combustion happening in the exhaust can be damaging in large amounts, but in the right amounts its great for performance. That's basically what launch control does. It skips a couple sparks to allow combustion to happen in the exhaust to facilitate spooling in neutral (no load).
That might be what causes the backfire during a proper NLS.
That might be what causes the backfire during a proper NLS.
Eric Smit
Enforcer
All accurate.
