Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
No, they were single pins, which is good because the pin outs on the ECU are in wildly different places.
Alcohol Sensor install
- Thread starter Swordsmith
- Start date
jeremiah.wells
New member
cut, solder, shrinkwrap. looks clean and gets the job done. i do understand this not being an option if you want to keep your harness unhacked
Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
Update on this project, since it keeps coming up.
Whole install went smooth, and Trifecta confirmed I am getting accurate fuel readings. I ran a wide variety of fuel mixes with no problems, and data logs were able to confirm a pretty close reading... I can't tell exactly what my mix is, because all fuels sold give only a range of possible alcohol content, 0-10% or 70-85%, so any given mix could only be within a certain range. Still, I ran everything from 7% to 16% to 40% to 80%, and lots and lots of tanks of E85.
Here's the skinny; E85 is not a monetarily efficient fuel. Under ideal conditions I was able to get as much as 27MPG, but normally I ran a solid 23mpg... and really pushing it, 22mpg. Same ideal conditions running 93 octane I got 44mpg.
While E85 is significantly cheaper per gallon than 93, it is not Half the price, while I get little more than half the MPG.
Also, when starting, on a cold day especially, E85 runs rough and ragged, it often stalls. This only lasts a minute or two, once the engine warms up it's smooth as any other fuel, once you get the tune dialed in. But it's a pain in cold weather.
On the plus side, it's capable of giving you a LOT more power. My UG got numbers as high as 230hp, my butt dyno says the difference is probably bigger than that. And it's capable of giving just as small amounts of power as any other fuel; use the accelerator gently and there's no difference between it and anything else.
I'm running 93 again now, in part because it helps make me feel good about doing the alcohol sensor, in part because I'm doing a lot of short trip runabout duty and this is much cheaper, and because in slippery weather the E85 is wasted, you can't lay down any real power on slick roads even if you wanted to.
If you want "racecar" power, E85 makes sense. Or if you're a crazy hippy who wants to save the planet by using less gas; I figure I was getting around 44miles per gallon of gasoline using E10 93, and I'm getting 153 miles per gallon of gasoline on E85. Lower pollution, better for the planet, so on and so forth.
For the casual driver looking to save a buck because E85 is priced even lower than that 87 crap, no, this isn't for you.
Whole install went smooth, and Trifecta confirmed I am getting accurate fuel readings. I ran a wide variety of fuel mixes with no problems, and data logs were able to confirm a pretty close reading... I can't tell exactly what my mix is, because all fuels sold give only a range of possible alcohol content, 0-10% or 70-85%, so any given mix could only be within a certain range. Still, I ran everything from 7% to 16% to 40% to 80%, and lots and lots of tanks of E85.
Here's the skinny; E85 is not a monetarily efficient fuel. Under ideal conditions I was able to get as much as 27MPG, but normally I ran a solid 23mpg... and really pushing it, 22mpg. Same ideal conditions running 93 octane I got 44mpg.
While E85 is significantly cheaper per gallon than 93, it is not Half the price, while I get little more than half the MPG.
Also, when starting, on a cold day especially, E85 runs rough and ragged, it often stalls. This only lasts a minute or two, once the engine warms up it's smooth as any other fuel, once you get the tune dialed in. But it's a pain in cold weather.
On the plus side, it's capable of giving you a LOT more power. My UG got numbers as high as 230hp, my butt dyno says the difference is probably bigger than that. And it's capable of giving just as small amounts of power as any other fuel; use the accelerator gently and there's no difference between it and anything else.
I'm running 93 again now, in part because it helps make me feel good about doing the alcohol sensor, in part because I'm doing a lot of short trip runabout duty and this is much cheaper, and because in slippery weather the E85 is wasted, you can't lay down any real power on slick roads even if you wanted to.
If you want "racecar" power, E85 makes sense. Or if you're a crazy hippy who wants to save the planet by using less gas; I figure I was getting around 44miles per gallon of gasoline using E10 93, and I'm getting 153 miles per gallon of gasoline on E85. Lower pollution, better for the planet, so on and so forth.
For the casual driver looking to save a buck because E85 is priced even lower than that 87 crap, no, this isn't for you.
Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
I'm filling up, clearing trip ODO, filling up, doing the math.
It is possible I have a faulty injector, though, if you're getting much better numbers. Early on we thought that was the case but it seemed to clear up. Not really sure how to check!
I'd be very excited to see mid 30s on E85, I would never run anything else. Even at 23, it hurts me to go back to 93.
No, my numbers are not dyno proven, by the way, they are strictly UG report. I tried to set up a dyno but every one I could find was booked a month in advance, and I'm serving as taxi to a GF with some medical problems, very hard for me to predict that far off. She's doing much better now, I should give it another shot.
While I don't have dyno numbers, I can say that the best HP number I got from UG pre 85 was 180, and the best I saw on E85 was 230. So while they might not be accurate compared to another Sonic, due to the weirdness that is UG, that should be a relatively accurate picture of the gain.
It is possible I have a faulty injector, though, if you're getting much better numbers. Early on we thought that was the case but it seemed to clear up. Not really sure how to check!
I'd be very excited to see mid 30s on E85, I would never run anything else. Even at 23, it hurts me to go back to 93.
No, my numbers are not dyno proven, by the way, they are strictly UG report. I tried to set up a dyno but every one I could find was booked a month in advance, and I'm serving as taxi to a GF with some medical problems, very hard for me to predict that far off. She's doing much better now, I should give it another shot.
While I don't have dyno numbers, I can say that the best HP number I got from UG pre 85 was 180, and the best I saw on E85 was 230. So while they might not be accurate compared to another Sonic, due to the weirdness that is UG, that should be a relatively accurate picture of the gain.
Jeraime1741
New member
Its coming guys...lol soon red pill.
Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure of how big of a boost you could get out of the little 1.4l w e85. Sounds fun though!
I understand about the gauge. I had a LiquidTT, something very similar to the UG. Though I knew the numbers couldn't be entirely accurate, I used it to measure gains as well and used it as a baseline.
turbo
New member
Great writeup, thanks for the update! Sounds like too much of a pain in the ass for my daily driver...but I'm still jealous...
Jeraime1741
New member
Clutch?....but why...hey if u can figure out a way to put one on...im down dude lol
Because auto......
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Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
Don't know about the auto, but for the manual, Trifecta refuses to release the Red Pill tune until you put a better clutch in, the OEM clutch won't hold the amount of power the engine is capable of generating. Their Blue Pill E85 tune is available to anyone, and pushes the stock clutch right up to its limits... but there's more power available if your car can take it, that's what the Red Pill is about.
For the auto, well, I'm sure there are people who understand how that works and what it can and can't take. You could go straight to Vince and ask him, I know he thinks about Auto's since he's got a tune that also modifies your shift points for you, reportedly to great effect.
For the auto, well, I'm sure there are people who understand how that works and what it can and can't take. You could go straight to Vince and ask him, I know he thinks about Auto's since he's got a tune that also modifies your shift points for you, reportedly to great effect.
Preloader
The M32 Martyr
Ethanol burns colder and resists detonation, allowing for more timing.
More timing, more power.
More ethanol, more timing, more power.
I know I'm speaking semantics, but ethical content doesn't directly create more power, rather it allows the engine to produce more power based on increased timing advance.
If anything, ethanol in itself, contains less power than gas per volume, that's why you have to burn a lot moe ethanol to see gains.
More timing, more power.
More ethanol, more timing, more power.
I know I'm speaking semantics, but ethical content doesn't directly create more power, rather it allows the engine to produce more power based on increased timing advance.
If anything, ethanol in itself, contains less power than gas per volume, that's why you have to burn a lot moe ethanol to see gains.
Swordsmith
242hp/252 ft-lbs BNR EFI
Yeah, to run E85 in order to get more power, you need larger injectors that can deliver more volume, because there's less energy per volume in ethanol than in gasoline. You can also get more power by running race fuel, which is gasoline with a higher octane rating, and you don't need special injectors for that... but it's very hard to find, and it's very expensive stuff. Still, this is what the current record holder for the Sonic quarter mile used.
With the flexfuel setup, I can run around on 93 or even 87, with it's mystery amount of ethanol (something between none and 10%), or I can run 100% E85 with its mystery amount somewhere between 70% and 85%, or I can randomly mix the two by filling up a partial tank of one with the rest of the tank of another, which is a lot more convenient than waiting till you're down to the dregs, refilling and reflashing.
I have an E85 pump about a mile away from me, but they are hard to find travelling cross country, so there's a lot of peace of mind in knowing I can just fill up wherever on whatever.
Next time there's a track day coming up, though, you can bet I'll be sure to empty out as much of that E10 as I can from the tank.
With the flexfuel setup, I can run around on 93 or even 87, with it's mystery amount of ethanol (something between none and 10%), or I can run 100% E85 with its mystery amount somewhere between 70% and 85%, or I can randomly mix the two by filling up a partial tank of one with the rest of the tank of another, which is a lot more convenient than waiting till you're down to the dregs, refilling and reflashing.
I have an E85 pump about a mile away from me, but they are hard to find travelling cross country, so there's a lot of peace of mind in knowing I can just fill up wherever on whatever.
Next time there's a track day coming up, though, you can bet I'll be sure to empty out as much of that E10 as I can from the tank.
